ff1,or2

[firedoc5]

George Bush is a member of your fire department? :shock:

I'm sorry I missed the original replies to this thread. I bet they were great!

Naw, he wouldn't be able to. Just think of all the Secret Service agents that would have to suit up to follow him in.

[Flasurfbum]

Hmmmm

NIST Officials Work to Spread the Word to the Fire Service

Susan Nicole Kyle

GAITHERSBURG, Md. -- Understanding fire behavior and dynamics are essential for firefighter safety.

However, the vital subjects aren't included in the majority of firefighting courses.

That's why officials involved in the fire research division at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) say they're willing to do whatever it takes to get the word out.

NIST researchers are often on the agenda at major fire conferences. On Wednesday, they hosted nearly 400 firefighters, inspectors, training academy instructors and fire marshals at their facility.

"We've been asked to come to give presentations at various fire departments," said Daniel Madrzykowski, fire protection engineer. "We have a lot of work to do here. We don't have time to go out."

When word spread that Madrzykowski and Steve Kerber would be sharing valuable fire research, the one day conference started growing.

"I think it's so important that firefighters have a level of understanding about fire dynamics," he said.

Dr. James M. Turner, NIST deputy director, assured the group that the fire research division is more committed than ever to reconstruct events to determine what happened.

He applauded the various fire departments for their involvement in the projects. The partnerships show just how committed both are to enhancing firefighter safety.

Madrzykowski said research has changed over the years. In the '70s, the scientists studied fire behavior to help save or protect buildings. Now, that focus has shifted to saving people.

Kerber said although the fire environment has changed, the fire service "is not or is doing so very slowly."

He added: "There is a difference between tactics and theory."

Participants watched videos of simulated burns as the engineers explained theory and dynamics. They learned what conditions to watch for that signal a flashover is possible.

Smoke is often the tell tale sign, they said. Graphs depicting time and temperature showed why the fire spread as it had.

Kerber explained his study of positive pressure ventilation, a technique many departments aren't aware of. Videos shot during simulations in high rise buildings showed how properly placed fans can clear a hallway of smoke and prevent fire from leaving a room.

He said it takes a coordinated effort to carry out PPV. For safety, firefighters are encouraged to delay their attack for about 60 seconds after the ventilation to determine how the fire is going to react to the oxygen.

"No two houses are the same. They have different windows, layout and furnishings."

Information about the PPV study is available from NIST.

Cincinnati Fire Department Capt. Michael Washington said he was impressed with the conference. "It was outstanding, very informative. It was interesting to see the science behind it."

Several participants said the seminar could easily been a two day event.

Steve Kambarn, a fire inspector from Salisbury, Md., said he enjoyed learning about fire behavior. "It was very interesting."

Madrzykowski also reviewed several probes conducted following fires that involved firefighter deaths and multiple casualties.

Kerber said he hopes those who attended will share what they learned. "All the information is available. We hope they'll use it."

[Dustdevil]

Several participants said the seminar could easily been a two day event.

Steve Kambarn, a fire inspector from Salisbury, Md., said he enjoyed learning about fire behavior. "It was very interesting."

Geeze, what a bunch of knuckledragging idiots. Is it any wonder that so many firefighters continue to die every year? Completely clueless about the most basic aspect of their job, which is fire behaviour. They continue to repeat the same old mistakes, year after year, resulting in the same old results, year after year: Dead firemen. All in the name of tradition and machismo.

The day that EMS takes over the fire service, maybe they can enter the 21st century and become and educated profession, instead of just a labour job for Neanderthals.

[brentoli]

If EMS took over Fire:

FF1

Place tarps over everything

Drive the fire truck

Hand the FF3 all of the tools

Get in the way

FF2

Bring the hose into the house and start flowing water

Cut holes into the roof

Pretend you are too good to help FF1

FF2.5

Inject foam into the hoseline

Take care of everything the FF2 forgets when they are soooo excited to pull the hose in.

FF3

Set the flow rates for the hose.

Guide the FF1 to the fire.

Take care of all the tasks back at the station while the FF1's are talking about how the single handedly put out the fire and rescued the babies.

[Flasurfbum]

Geeze, what a bunch of knuckledragging idiots. Is it any wonder that so many firefighters continue to die every year? Completely clueless about the most basic aspect of their job, which is fire behaviour. They continue to repeat the same old mistakes, year after year, resulting in the same old results, year after year: Dead firemen. All in the name of tradition and machismo.

The day that EMS takes over the fire service, maybe they can enter the 21st century and become and educated profession, instead of just a labour job for Neanderthals.

Yes and no, Dust.

As long as the educational requirements continue to pander to the lowest common denominator (sorry folks, but that is 9 times outta 10 the vollies), then there will be no advancement.

Here in Fla, the FFII curiculum is heavy in the fire behavior.

The Fire I is what to do. No whys. More like EMT.

And the vollies piss and moan and cry when career depts won't call them for assistance. Hm.... :roll:

As for the no, look at the numbers of those that died, and the causes of said injuries.

55% (+/-) are from cardiovascular related incidents, 25% (+/-) are from motor vehicle related incidents.

That leaves aprox. 20 % (+/-) from actual firefighting related injuries. I did not further break that down to include rapid fire growth, structural collapse, lost/disoriented, or otherwise entrapped.

Also, there is at least 10 (+/-) Firefighters who are killed in wildfire incidents. Those are extremely hard to predict, and often times are the result of sudden changes in weather. Yes, some could have been prevented, but short of the fire never starting, many would have been difficult to have actually prevented, since the weather plays such a large role in wildland firefighting.

[Dustdevil]

Agreed on all ponts.

But that twenty percent is almost ninety-nine percent preventable. Yet it remains steady year after year. When was the last time you heard of a firefighter dying in some new way that we'd never seen before? The risks have been the same for decades, but the fire service fails to recognise them and account for them. Chiefs and incident commanders ought to start being charged with manslaughter when firefighters die. Maybe then they might take seriously their duty to know their job, and give due concern for the lives of their men.

[Flasurfbum]

Agreed on all ponts.

But that twenty percent is almost ninety-nine percent preventable. Yet it remains steady year after year. When was the last time you heard of a firefighter dying in some new way that we'd never seen before? The risks have been the same for decades, but the fire service fails to recognise them and account for them. Chiefs and incident commanders ought to start being charged with manslaughter when firefighters die. Maybe then they might take seriously their duty to know their job, and give due concern for the lives of their men.

This was a first, at least that I had heard of.

NIOSH warning on aerial ladders with locking waterways

NIOSH issued a safety advisory on Thursday in connection with April 8 LODD of Deputy Chief Michael Crotty. Chief Crotty with the Lawrence Park VFD in Erie County, PA was killed during a fire at Port Erie Plastics when he was "struck by a motorized water monitor and 30 feet of aluminum pipe that was 'launched' off an elevated aerial ladder". Excerpts from the safety advisory:

NIOSH recommends that all fire departments utilizing aerial ladder trucks with locking (pin-anchored, lever actuated, clamped) waterways immediately take the following actions to reduce the risk of fire fighters being struck by unsecured waterways or parts of the waterway:

Ensure that Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) and/or Guidelines (SOGs) on setting up multi-position waterways include steps to properly position the waterway and to inspectand verify that the locking mechanism (anchoring pin(s), lever, clamps, etc.) are properly installed and functioning as designed before pressurizing the waterway.

Properly train and practice the correct method of securing waterways and verifying they are secured (per manufacturer’s recommendations).

Preliminary findings in this investigation suggest that some equipment designs do not provide secondary stops for the waterway on aerial ladders. Thus, failure to properly secure the waterway in the proper position can lead to catastrophic waterway failure and possible serious or fatal injury to fire fighters working in the area.

When there are reports of people trapped, or there is reason to believe that there is entrapment, it would be near negligent to not make at least an aggressive interior search, if not attack.

[Dustdevil]

Sure, but most are killed while walking around on rooftops of empty warehouses, or the interior of known empty buildings. Firemen suffer from the same attitude as cops. They don't like to be seen as standing around and doing nothing, so instead, they do stupid things to look busy. And they die.