Bail Enforcment Agents, The Combative PT and Confidentiality

[Just Plain Ruff]

no I'm not focused on my territory.

I'm still calling the police to figure this out. If after the police determine that this is legit then I'll let the bail agent ride with me but not until the local law enforcement agency deems it legit.

It's one thing for a police officer to ride in the back with me but it's another thing to let someone who may not be familiar to me to ride with me, arrest powers or not.

Plus if I need to treat the patient neither the bail agent nor the police will dictate my treatment or choice of hospital if I determine the patient needs to go to a different one than they suggest.

Depending on the injuries.

I think the biggest issue here is familiarity. We don't get nearly as many arrests by bail agents than we do with law enforcement. That's the issue I think. I am sure that the services I used to work for had some sort of policy that we were supposed to follow regarding bail agents but since I've never been put in the position of a bail agent being there except for one time, it has never been tested. As a matter of fact I can count on the fingers of my left hand the number of colleagues that I know that have been exposed to bail agents and an injured detainee.

Repetition begets familiarity and the services I've worked for never had many calls for injured detainees being arrested by bail agents.

but to just tell me "Im and bail agent and this is my prisoner" is gonna get me to reply "I'm going to have PD respond to make sure this is what it is" It's not the fact that I don't like bail agents nor is it the fact that I don't believe them but if I'm called to take care of a injured bail jumper and that injury was the direct cause of the person trying to get away and the bail agent took him down then I'm going to get law enforcement involved, I don't care it it's Dwane Chapman or Dustdevil. I'm simply covering my butt.

[letmesleep]

No offense taken here, but in all reality they have the same arrest powers that you and I do. Last time I checked the citizen has the right to arrest, and thats what these men and women really are as stated by Asysin2leads above. When it comes to keeping everyone safe on our scene we use the PD not a bounty hunter, so in this situation the PD will be dispatched to protect us from the "skip" as well as the bondsman. It is a territorial issue at this point. It's my responsiblity to run that ambulance, and maintain order in that ambulance while I am on duty. Thats what the taxpayers pay ME for, and if I allow somebody (PD included) to take control of my truck, then I haven't done my job. Trailrunner, your right, we are responsible for the medical "stuff", and that includes the safety of the "skip" if they are requesting medical assistance. If the bondsmen don't want to follow the "rule of the truck", then sign here and take the "skip" to the ED yourself, or talk to MY officer about it.

[Lone Star]

No offense taken here, but in all reality they have the same arrest powers that you and I do. Last time I checked the citizen has the right to arrest, and thats what these men and women really are as stated by Asysin2leads above. When it comes to keeping everyone safe on our scene we use the PD not a bounty hunter, so in this situation the PD will be dispatched to protect us from the "skip" as well as the bondsman. It is a territorial issue at this point. It's my responsiblity to run that ambulance, and maintain order in that ambulance while I am on duty. Thats what the taxpayers pay ME for, and if I allow somebody (PD included) to take control of my truck, then I haven't done my job. Trailrunner, your right, we are responsible for the medical "stuff", and that includes the safety of the "skip" if they are requesting medical assistance. If the bondsmen don't want to follow the "rule of the truck", then sign here and take the "skip" to the ED yourself, or talk to MY officer about it.

While I agree that if there are problems; then by all means, bring law enforcement into play. Having a shouting match with anyone over who is the actual boss is counterproductive at best.

The 'problem' I'm having with this post is the section hilighted in red....how can the bondsman even BEGIN to decide whats best for the patient, or even refuse medical treatment on the patients behalf? If theres ANY signature on a refusal to treat form, it had BETTER be that of the patient!

To allow the bondsman (or law enforcement officer) to speak for, and ultimately refuse medical treatment for the prisoner would constitute abandonment.

Even in the event that the patient is a minor, the ONLY people that can sign a refusal would be the minors LEGAL GUARDIANS, appointed by the family court. Last time I checked, not even law enforcement has that power; even with 'one in custody'!

[letmesleep]

Lone Star, you are absolutely correct and +5 for calling me out on this line. I wrote that more as a state of mind than reality. My point is that that the bondsmen are NOT going to control the medical side of any argument, and I do agree that a shouting match would be less than professional, hence forth refereing to PD.

[trailrunner78]

Reply within text, caps to indicate reply, not yelling.

no I'm not focused on my territory.

I'm still calling the police to figure this out. If after the police determine that this is legit then I'll let the bail agent ride with me but not until the local law enforcement agency deems it legit. NO RESPONSIBLE BAIL AGENT IS GONNA HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS.

It's one thing for a police officer to ride in the back with me but it's another thing to let someone who may not be familiar to me to ride with me, arrest powers or not. UNDERSTOOD.

Plus if I need to treat the patient neither the bail agent nor the police will dictate my treatment or choice of hospital if I determine the patient needs to go to a different one than they suggest. OF COURSE NOT.

Depending on the injuries.

I think the biggest issue here is familiarity. We don't get nearly as many arrests by bail agents than we do with law enforcement. That's the issue I think. I am sure that the services I used to work for had some sort of policy that we were supposed to follow regarding bail agents but since I've never been put in the position of a bail agent being there except for one time, it has never been tested. As a matter of fact I can count on the fingers of my left hand the number of colleagues that I know that have been exposed to bail agents and an injured detainee.

I WOULDN'T THINK IT LIKELY TO COME UP OFTEN.

Repetition begets familiarity and the services I've worked for never had many calls for injured detainees being arrested by bail agents.

but to just tell me "Im and bail agent and this is my prisoner" is gonna get me to reply "I'm going to have PD respond to make sure this is what it is" It's not the fact that I don't like bail agents nor is it the fact that I don't believe them but if I'm called to take care of a injured bail jumper and that injury was the direct cause of the person trying to get away and the bail agent took him down then I'm going to get law enforcement involved, I don't care it it's Duane Chapman or Dustdevil. I'm simply covering my butt.

GOTCHA. CHEERS.

[Just Plain Ruff]

cool we are in agreement then.

I do not for one minute think that a responsible bail agent would have a problem with having local law enforcement called.

But being mostly unfamiliar with dealing with bond agents, I'm leaning on my instincts.

but.... that being said.... if the bond agent is cool and not causing a problem and the subject is not hurt bad then I'll probably have no issues with him riding in the ambulance but of course I have to be 100% comfortable with that arrangement.

[trailrunner78]

No offense taken here, but in all reality they have the same arrest powers that you and I do.

You do not know what you are talking about here. Citizens are not allowed to force entry into a persons home to arrest without a warrant, even the Police need probable cause, exigent circumstance, or hot pursuit to do that, whereas Bail Agents are allowed to do exactly that. We are definitely not talking about citizen's arrest here; You may wish to google the subject. Are you thinking about security guards perhaps? In that case you would be correct, they have only the same powers of arrest as any other citizen, although there are also exceptions to that such as "Special Police" commissions from a municipality or Federal Property/GSA contracts where the security guard, while state licensed and employed by a guard company/contractor, actually has police powers while on Federal Property or while on duty. BTDT.

[letmesleep]

Pardon me, but I, you, and any joe shmo can get a little badge from "Galls" saying "bail bounds enforcement" on it, and whammo, your a bondsmen with the same power as "DOG". There is no training necessary, you only have to go apply and get hired at any local bail bounds office. The only time there would be "training" is when you wish to carry a firearm. Maybe a little goggling should be done! As stated above, these people are simply citizens!

[letmesleep]

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=Bail+Enforcement&...2FBounty_hunter

In the United States legal system, the 1872 U.S. Supreme Court case Taylor v. Taintor, 16 Wall (83 U.S. 366, 21 L.Ed. 287), is cited as having established that the person into whose custody an accused is remanded as part of the accused's bail has sweeping rights to recover that person (although this may have been accurate at the time the decision was reached, the portion cited was obiter dicta and has no binding precedential value). Most bounty hunters are employed by a bail bondsman: the bounty hunter is paid a portion of the bail the fugitive initially paid. If the fugitive eludes bail, the bondsman, not the bounty hunter, is responsible for the remainder of the fugitive's bail.

Thus, the bounty hunter is the bail bondsman's way of ensuring his clients arrive at trial. In the United States, bounty hunters catch an estimated 31,500 bail jumpers per year, about 90% of people who jump bail.[1] Bounty hunters are also sometimes known as "bail enforcement agents" or "fugitive recovery agents," which are the preferred industry and polite terms, but in common speech (and language), they are still called "bounty hunters".

Bounty hunters are sometimes called "skiptracers," but this usage can be misleading. While bounty hunters are often skiptracers as well, skiptracing generally refers to the process of searching for an individual through less direct methods than active pursuit and apprehension, such as private investigators or debt collectors. Skiptracing can also refer to searches related to a civil matter and does not always imply criminal conduct on the part of the individual being traced.

In the United States of America, bounty hunters have varying levels of authority in their duties with regard to their targets, depending on the states in which they operate. As opined in Taylor v. Taintor, and barring restrictions applicable state by state, a bounty hunter can enter the fugitive's private property without a warrant in order to execute a re-arrest. In some states, bounty hunters do not undergo any formal training, and are generally unlicensed, only requiring sanction from a bail bondsman to operate. In other states, however, they are held to varying standards of training and licensure. In California, bounty hunters must undergo a background check and complete various courses that satisfy the penal code 1299 requirements.[2] In most states they are prohibited from carrying firearms without proper permits. Louisiana requires bounty hunters to wear clothing identifying them as such.[3] In Kentucky, bounty hunting is generally not allowed because the state does not have a system of bail bondsmen, and releases bailed suspects through the state's Pretrial Services division of the courts, thus there is no bondsman with the right to apprehend the fugitive. Generally, only fugitives who have fled bail on federal charges from another state where bounty hunting is legal are allowed to be hunted in Kentucky.[3] In Texas, every bounty hunter is required to be a peace officer, Level III (armed) security officer, or a private investigator.[4]

State legal requirements are often imposed on out-of-state bounty hunters, meaning a suspect could temporarily escape re-arrest by entering a state in which the bail agent has limited or no jurisdiction.

[trailrunner78]

Pardon me, but I, you, and any joe shmo can get a little badge from "Galls" saying "bail bounds enforcement" on it, and whammo, your a bondsmen with the same power as "DOG". There is no training necessary, you only have to go apply and get hired at any local bail bounds office. The only time there would be "training" is when you wish to carry a firearm. Maybe a little goggling should be done! As stated above, these people are simply citizens!

See, this is why I said you don't know what you are talking about. You apparently have zero idea where the legal authority to re-arrest someone who has bonded out of custody comes from. I don't the time or the inclination to educate you; you should be willing to do that yourself. Here's a hint; it's a very old Supreme Court decision that has to this day not been overturned and is still in force. You apparently don't even know what a bail bond is since you managed to misspell it twice, and an employee of a bail bondsman is not one himself, that is why they are called an agent. I won't even get into the fantasy that a bail bondsman will just hire any warm body who walks through his door, suffice to say that you need to bring something to the table other than near total ignorance of the job.

The State where I worked as an armed Private Detective Agency employee (Illinois) has no bail bond system, but we did get the occasional request from an out of state agency to check out the address of known relatives of a skip to see if he was hanging out there......we rolled with an AR15 and a 12ga. autoloader in the trunk in addition to our sidearms. If it's on your "Tan Card", you can have it.....The South and West Sides of Chicago are no place for an under-equipped or faint hearted white boy.

The reason it sounds like I know what I'm talking about is because I do. Unlike yourself, (PLEASE don't reply back and claim you have....) I've actually gone looking for bail skips. You having READ about this doesn't mean you KNOW anything about it, anymore than my having read about what an EMT-P does and putting that together with my piddly old Combat Lifesaver Qualification makes me a Paramedic.

Oh, and it's "Google", not "goggle". Goggles are what you wear on your face. After you square yourself away on that, investigate that little SpellCheck icon in the bottom right hand corner of the message body.....