So is this stupid or what???

[Don1977]

I was informed last week that a coworker was fired for taking pictures of patients on his cell phone....

His reason was good, but the idiot approached it wrong, his reason was because his partner was incompetent in his skills, so he took pictures of patients to show our directors what he didn't do for them.

So we was fired for going against the privacy acts, I know the guy he was partners with and I can tell you he sucks as a Basic, but this guy really went overboard.

So, I just want to know, what is your opinion of this? You think Scott should have been fired?

thanks for your comments

[ConstanceGoodheart]

The only time pictures of a patient was taken in my presence was assaults, and they were done by police. It really is a shady area, but sometimes photos can help, but they should only be shown to the staff treating the patient when you turn care over and (in my opinion) deleted right there in their presence. I've never encountered a need to photograph a patient. I try to be as descriptive in my narratives as possible, and been known to submit 4 pages for one transfer.

[Christopher.Collins]

Well Don, it can really go either way. I think theres some info missing but Im ganna kinda wing it...

Last months issue of JEMS was mostly about on scene and patient photography. If you havnt seen it I reccomend getting the back issue on jems.com. Anyways part of it comes down to your agencies polocy on photography... if there isnt one at all he could technically fight it and even possibly win. What he should have done (Im going to assume he didnt) was cosult your director of service in regards to said member. While his intent in the photography was not negligent there are other ways to approach the situation. They could have questioned others who have worked with him (the bad emt), ED physicians... etc. And then decided how to address it from there, be it appoint him to work with an FTO or just be under watchfull eye of senior personell, QA and managment.

I am willing to say that termination may have been a little extreme, but I dont know the full details. If this member was a clean cut, good record type with no history of such problems, then maybe a warning or suspention for negligence. However (based on what you have said), fact of the matter remains he did go over someones head and violated patient privacy.

[Lone Star]

I would have to agree with Constance....

There should have been no need for 'Scott' to take pictures of the patient, he should have been able to document the incompetence adequately in an incident report.

The only time I can see photographing a patient, would be as Constance said, to document injuries for filing criminal charges. Those photographs should be taken by a law enforcement officer, as to preserve the 'chain of custody' on the evidence.

Any other 'reasons', how ever well intentioned should be (and are) a violation of not only privacy laws, but it's not doing anything to protect the patients dignity!

How long has "Scott" been an EMT?

It's a shame that your friend should even find himself in that position, but we walk a very fine line with the dissemination of information and toeing the line with HIPAA requirements.....

[Don1977]

CC and Brett, I agree with you both, I did not hear the full story, but can tell you the EMT in back is a real bad EMT, I wrote him up once for basically killing an MVA victim for a lack of skills, but anyway... I would not resort to take pics and would have thoroughly documented and wrote him up for it.

I also can say CC, I have not seen anything written in my company saying you cannot take pics like that.

I personally agree with him being fired, but the otehr guy should have lost his numbers as well last year.

I also agree with Constance.

[itku2er]

I was informed last week that a coworker was fired for taking pictures of patients on his cell phone....

His reason was good, but the idiot approached it wrong, his reason was because his partner was incompetent in his skills, so he took pictures of patients to show our directors what he didn't do for them.

So we was fired for going against the privacy acts, I know the guy he was partners with and I can tell you he sucks as a Basic, but this guy really went overboard.

So, I just want to know, what is your opinion of this? You think Scott should have been fired?

thanks for your comments

What was the level of the guy taking the pictures? Did he have permission from the patient to take their picture? What skill did the basic do that wasn't correctly done? Had there any other incident like this at your squad Don? I am full of questions but based on what you have put here I can not make a decisiosn on if its stupid or not. I am saying there is more to this story than we are getting.

[scratrat]

That is in fact a HIPPA violation and they had every right to fire him. The ONLY acceptable time when you can photograph a pt, is on the street. There is no expectation of privacy. You CANNOT take any pictures while inside their home or inside the ambulance where they have an expectation of privacy.

[Just Plain Ruff]

i would have fired him too. There is no reason to take pictures of the patient unless it is for patient care purposes and cell phone pics are not allowed. It also sounds like they were taken without the patients permission and I believe you need a photo consent to take photos but that may just have been all the services that I worked at in the past.

How is the service to know what those pictures were used for, how do they know that these pictures were not immediately sent off to whoever and their uncle.

picture policy or not, you don't take pictures of patients without their permission nor do you take them with your Cell phone. You use a company provided camera which your company should have available in each unit to document damage to vehicles for trauma surgeons and that kind of stuff.

If the patient in the pictures was in any sort of exposed way, and you know what I mean and a picture on a cell phone was taken then that is just wrong.

there are other ways of going about this and taking pictures without the patients permission is not the way to do it.

Sorry bout your buddy but he was wrong, and he suffered the consequences of his actions. I'm sure the emt in the back was a dumb ass but your friend was a dumb ass for taking pictures without the patients permission. sorry.

[firedoc5]

Sounds like a bit of over kill on the picture takers part. His reporting, either in writing or a meeting should have been enough. Maybe it was out of frustration or something where he thought he had to "really" show how bad this guy was, but it was uncalled for. There were times I felt like taking pictures due to incompetent care, but I just reported it. There were a few times though that after getting to the hospital I've pulled the nurse or doc over to the side of the patient to point out a few things. But that was usually regarding what an EMT/ First Responder or Rescue personnel did prior to our arrival. I'd point out what was done wrong and what we did to correct it.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Let's take it a different way.

You are the patient, you are being cared for by mr I don't have a clue emt in the back.(Not the guy who got fired).

The guys partner takes pictures on his cell phone of the care received.

Do you care? Do you have a problem with being photographed by an EMT with his camera phone and do you have a problem with the EMT Taking your picture without your permission?

I can honestly say I have a real big problem with it and if I found out that this was occurring I'd be really pissed.

I can also say if I saw him taking my picture on his cell phone I'd probably take it from him and after I got out of the ER I'd drive right over to his place of employment with the phone and lodge a formal complaint?

Or I'd just destroy the camera.