Paramedic Burnout issues

[jw]

Hi all. I am a recent grad from a EMT-B program. I enjoyed the classroom learning as well as the ride-alongs. I didn't really understand how significant off an issue burnout was until my ride -alongs where some of the paramedics would complain when there peers were not around. I heard some of it but I still feel like I have only half the story.So lay it on the table all of you paramedics. I want to know the downs of being a paramedic aside from the usual long hours. At least here in the SF Bay Area a lot of paramedics are pulling $100k plus.

Im hoping some of you guys can talk freely in anonymity here so I can make a more informed decision before moving further with this.

Thanks for your input.

[Just Plain Ruff]

long hours

bitchy nurses

cantankerous docs

stinky and crazy partners

long hours

oh did I already say long hours

low pay

low respect

but if you work the job right there is tremendous satisfaction that you did make a difference in someone's life.

Even if you held the hand of a little ole' lady to the ER after she fell and cut her head - and you comforted her then you made a difference

This might be a sign of where you are doing your clinicals - it makes one think about whether you want to work for that particular service. If there are more than 20% of their force that you are seeing are complaining then there may be something deeper going on at that service to make their people burned out.

[letmesleep]

I'll have to agree with Ruff, what is the big picture where your riding at? It isn't always "burnout" that your seeing around the station when we, you, them are bitching. It could be recent changes that are not going over so well, or just an argument with a spouse that can cause a bad day at the job. For instance my brother-in-law was having a crap day a few weeks ago because my nephew was at home sick, and he felt helpless at work....the guy's pulled him off the ambulance and put him on the pumper to get him some down time.

I will say that "burnout" peaks it's ugly little head up in a number of ways tho. I have seen medics just up and leave never to be seen from again. I know one guy who turned in his 2 weeks, leave, and a year later he came back. He took the time off to get away from the job, and when he returned he was more relaxed and stronger than before. I have also seen medics just become numb to the job refereing to the "cookbook" type medicine we all hate so much. It wasn't as if they had done anything wrong they just kinda went through the motions. Bitching about crap around the station could be "burnout", but I would say it's more of a "whats going on around the station" situation. One thing I have noticed in my experience is that medics (EMTs) are very verbal and ask questions a lot (even when we may not like the answers), it is our nature, thats what we do.

[paramedicmike]

Earning a $100K a year doesn't mean you can't get burned out. Running non-stop from the start of your shift to the end, every day you work, can drain you. Dealing with people when they're at their worst can drain you. Dealing with the dregs of society on a daily basis can drain you. Dealing with people who treat you as nothing more than a taxi can drain you.

Add to that the items Ruff outlined and you find yourself in an environment where, if you don't take care of yourself outside of work, you'll find yourself with a very short fuse.

EMS is not the end all and be all of anything. Stress management is important...more-so than in many other professions. Don't get sucked into living your job.

-be safe

[Just Plain Ruff]

I want to add, a quality work life balance is KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY. Did I say that enough.

If your life revolves around EMS (whackers I say whackers) then you will have no other hobbies or interests. I know a lot of people who would rather be at the station and "available" to run calls then you will get burned out

To have a quality life out of work you need to have hobbies and interests that extend away from the firehouse/ems station. If that means you don't take your pager with you when you go out to eat or you don't answer your cell phone when you are on your days off then so be it.

The ones who I see burn out fast are the ones who don't think that the county or EMS system can do without them. We all know those types of people right?

[jw]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I guess I should have mentioned that my ultimate goal is to get into the Fire Dept. Early on I hadn't thought of becoming a paramedic until some mentors said it would give me a better shot getting in the dept. I liked my EMT class and the ride alongs so I thought I would like being a paramedic & it might help me get into the FD sooner. I have been entertaining the paramedic path and doing a lot of research. Other guys have said that it will get me in sooner but not to do it unless Im 100% on being a paramedic for good. I guess they were suggesting that I could get stuck permanently as a paramedic within the FD??? Somewhere else I read that on average paramedics burnout and hit the road after 8 years. So, all of this burnout stuff has made me a bit sheepish and has me looking at the RN path as well. Most are saying that RN's get paid way better and have way better working conditions- obviously!.

Im a little confused by the 'too many hours' comments that Ive heard. In the SF Bay Area most of the paramedics work 4 day tens. Do you guys get that much mandatory overtime that it turns into 60 & 70 hour weeks? And those of you responding- how many years do have in as a paramedic?

At 36 my next career move has to be for good so Im trying get all of the answers I can. Hey, I just want to be a firefighter- me and the other 9,999 guys that showed up to Oakland Fire last January!

Thanks for all of your feedback guys.

[paramedicmike]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

You're welcome.

I guess I should have mentioned that my ultimate goal is to get into the Fire Dept. Early on I hadn't thought of becoming a paramedic until some mentors said it would give me a better shot getting in the dept. I liked my EMT class and the ride alongs so I thought I would like being a paramedic & it might help me get into the FD sooner.

Well, you, rather unknowingly it seems, just walked into a potential fire storm. This is going to turn into another fire versus EMS debate. I just know it!:evil:

You need to make a decision. You either go on to be a paramedic because you want, 100% deep down in your bones so bad you dream about it at night and can taste the threads on that nifty patch you'll get to wear, to be a paramedic or you decide to be a FF. If you're doing it only because you think it'll make it easier to get hired by the local FD then stop wasting your time. In fact, stop wasting your time, your instructor's time, your classmate's time and the time of any patient you may potentially [s:675eed030a]kill[/s:675eed030a] treat. You won't be doing any one any service if you're doing this only for the purpose of getting a totally unrelated job. Your heart won't be in it and that will be reflected in you lackluster care.

Yeah, I know the local FD runs EMS. If you're in the Bay area (as your posts make it sound) you need to seriously research the mess that is SFFD and their EMS program. There are major and serious problems with regards to how SFFD runs EMS. There is also no shortage of SF Chronicle coverage of the mess that exists.

If you *want* to be a paramedic, then go to paramedic school. If that is what you have your heart set on doing professionally, if that is your end goal, if that is what you think is your ideal next career, then by all means, do it. Despite the potential negatives mentioned above it can be, and often is, a very rewarding job.

If you want to do it only because you think you'll have a better shot at becoming a FF, then please do yourself and everyone else a favor and move on to something else. EMS is not a game. It's not something cool to do when you're not riding the engine. It is a world entirely of itself.

Please read and search through these forums. You will find more information regarding EMS, Fire based EMS, becoming a medic only to help become a FF than you can possibly read all in one sitting.

Then, when you have additional questions, please ask.

Understand that I'm not trying to discourage you one way or another. This is simply thrown out for your information so that you can be better informed as to just what it is you're attempting.

-be safe

[jwraider]

Hey JW which agency did you ride with? I'm in the East Bay.

As far as burnout vs complaining goes you may just have been experiencing EMS crews bitching and gossiping just for the sake of bitching and gossiping. Unfortunately that happens alot and you see it even more towards the end of a tour or long shift as people get tired.

I think people start to burnout when they are doing the job but really don't want to be there. You see patient care suffer and it's immediately obvious with the "drunks" and regulars you'll see someone treat them very poorly because they don't enjoy their job anymore (or never did). Personally I take the job and role as an opporuntiy to provide service work to the community and it's a bonus that I can be paid and make a career of it.

I don't agree with the "if you are doing just this to be a FF don't do it". I believe that what you need to do is be 110% into being a paramedic while you are being a paramedic no matter what. Even if you only do it for 3 years thats great. Unfortunately there are people out there who are just doing their time to become a FF and they end up being the ones providing poor care and bitching about their job. In order to succeed you must always be trying to be your best and I think that can be hard for people with short timer syndrome.

You really need to like the job because school is tough and yes you could end up a career medic in a FD (I met a captain who was pushing d50 and explaining he had been a medic for 20+ years now the other day). Oh and more importantly because your patients deserve the best care possible. You don't want to be sitting in the back with someone wondering why you didn't focus more on your skills and if that could be reversing their sickness.

Feel free to PM me if you need info on paramedic school or agencys in the area good luck.

[VentMedic]

I guess I should have mentioned that my ultimate goal is to get into the Fire Dept. Early on I hadn't thought of becoming a paramedic until some mentors said it would give me a better shot getting in the dept. I liked my EMT class and the ride alongs so I thought I would like being a paramedic & it might help me get into the FD sooner.

************

So, all of this burnout stuff has made me a bit sheepish and has me looking at the RN path as well. Most are saying that RN's get paid way better and have way better working conditions- obviously!.

********************

At 36 my next career move has to be for good so Im trying get all of the answers I can. Hey, I just want to be a firefighter- me and the other 9,999 guys that showed up to Oakland Fire last January!

Nursing takes at least two years and if you really have no interest in the medical profession it will be a waste. You'll will probably be washed from the program during your first clinical. While yes, RNs make great money in the Bay area, they also may have to put up with for 12 hours every shift 4 - 6 of those "undesirable" patients that EMTs and Paramedics complain about but can unload in 15 minutes in the Bay area.

If you got on at SFFD as a FF and not EMS you might be okay. However they are scrutinizing all their OT after some of their FFs made $100,000K in just OT to which this make national news since SF is in financial trouble. The nation already saw what happened in Vallejo, CA. Of course, the one FF that worked 19 24-hour shifts led the public to believe there isn't much to a FF job if they don't tire out or questioning if the public's safety is an issue because of tired workers.

Oakland had the 10,000 applicants for their 20 FD positions because they dropped their EMT requirement. I understand Oakland's Mayor Dellums will be dropping the "felon" box from city applications also.

Stick with the departments that are separate and just go for the FD. However, you must also consider the nature of the FF job and it is truly not for everyone. For your safety and that of anyone who works with you who will depend on your abilities, your heart and head must be into the job. The job has too many hazards and concerns for the lives of others as well as yourself to do half arsed.

[firedoc5]

I've been asked that same question several times by new EMT's. But I was always hesitant to answer with too much detail. I was afraid I'd discourage some and would drop out.

But I think almost everything I would say has already been said.