3 Dead After Medical Helicopter Crashes

[Punisher]

[quote="flight-lp"Going against the grain of the common saying, you DO need to quit your day job. Advocation for a safer air medical environment is one thing, but stating an occupation when you clearly show how clueless to research you are is another. The preliminary has not even been released yet, how on earth can you make any assertation to cause. I would also like to know how you have any correlary evidence showing similarity between the two other than the letters on the side of the aircraft. My thought is you are some bandwagon medic who reads a lot. Outside of that, you know jack..................................

BTW bright eyes, the 206 that crashed new years eve has hovering and more than likely suffered a compressor stall and subsequent power loss. As the aircraft was not moving, it was not able to develop lift when the transmission failed. No lift (horizontal or vertical) = no autorotation = accelerated uncontrollable descent into terrain. This one was in level flight, compressor stall not likely.

Yes, the Bell 206 is not an optimal airframe for EMS. Yes in a perfect world, every air medical agency would have all of the bells and whistles available to ensure safety. But its not a perfect world and its a capitalistic money driven industry. That is where the focus of change should be. They died coming back from a PR, they weren't even loaded. That is what is sad about this tragic event.

[FormerEMSLT297]

Punisher,, you say you know soooo much about flight ops and aero medical safety record, etc...

And you attribute this crash to engine malfunction, because "witnesses saw the engine burst into flames...."

I'll give you another scenario, On take off, a bird or 2, or some other debris was sucked into the engine intake and caused the fire...... NOTHING TO do with the mechanical record of the company ?? Ops, didnt think about that ......

Lets ALL Stop slinging the B.S. until the NTSB and others come out with an official report....

I heard from a friend who heard from someone else, who knows yet another person .......

Is is all just very counterproductive conjecture, rumor, speculation and gossip...

IMHO

PS does anyone know what type of a/c it was ? was it a 206 model or some other type???????????.

[brentoli]

The helicopter was operated by Air Evac Inc., a company that operates a fleet of medical helicopters around the Midwest. According to the company at the FAA, the helicopter was a Bell 206, that worked out of Rushville Hospital.

From earlier news article. :wink:

[brentoli]

Chopper went down in farm field; crew died instantlyBy Will Higgins

Posted: September 1, 2008

A Sunday’s fatal helicopter crash in southeastern Indiana was the second in four years in the state for the company that operated it.

Three crew members from an Air Evac Lifeteam helicopter died in Burney, Ind., after their medical chopper crashed about 1 p.m. in a Decatur County cornfield, about 40 miles southeast of Indianapolis. The crew had just finished an appearance at a fundraiser for the Burney Volunteer Fire Department when it piled into the field as it returned to its base at Rush Memorial Hospital in Rushville.

“The helicopter exploded on impact and instantly burst into flames,” Decatur County Sheriff Daryl Templeton said Sunday.

Decatur County Deputy Coroner Bobbi Loggan said the crew was killed instantly.

In April 2004, a copter for the West Plains, Mo.-based company was transporting a patient when it crashed near Evansville. The patient, Jerry Leonard, 63, suffocated after his stretcher’s chest strap became positioned around his neck after the impact of the crash, according to the Warrick County coroner’s office.

A National Transportation Safety Board report found that an alarm on the helicopter’s radar altimeter was set to 75 feet rather than the required 450 feet and that the setting on a separate altimeter provided a false altitude reading.

The NTSB report did not, however, say that the altimeter’s setting caused the crash.

The pilot during the accident, Richard Larock, left the company shortly after the crash.

Air Evac Lifeteam, operated by Air Evac EMS Inc., operates more than 75 bases in 12 states throughout the central United States, according to the company. The Rushville base has been in operation since February.

The FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board are investigating the cause of Sunday's crash.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Watch IndyStar.com for updates on this story.

Call Star reporter Will Higgins at (317) 444-6043.

[jalzate]

The cause of the wreck is unknown and will be for a long time if ever known. my husband and i have met both Sandra and Roger. They were wonderful people and our prayers are with the families and friends. My opinion only but I think we need to think more about the families then the crash and how it happened.

[brentoli]

When is it appropriate to think about the crash?

There will always be hurt, someone will always be affected. There will always be children with out a parent.

I am not stirring a pot, trying to hurt feelings, or anything of the like. Just a simple question, when is the right time?

[flight-lp]

I made no assertion to cause. I simply stated what witness saw and that Air Evac has had similar problems before.

When you have publications in a peer reviewed journal (and the AAMS rag, JEMS, EMS Magazine, etc do not count) you can lecture me on whether I know research or not. There are a LOT of people who point out the flaws in aeromedical operations and the lack of safety operations. Just because you feel threatened by the lack of evidence supporting your precious job, does not mean you have to resort to ad hominem defense tactics. By the way, I no longer work as an EMS provider. However, I am a pilot (and I'm working on my helicopter endorsement) and probably do have more of a grasp on the mechanics of flight than some flight medic who doesn't agree with the evidence (from persons with far more education than either of us) against his position. BTW, I also have flown a lot of aeromedical transports in my day, both in fixed-wing and rotorcraft.

The engine failure in Alabama may or may not have been due to a compressor stall which may or may not have been due to faulty maintenance. Most compressor stalls are due to failure of some component of the engine unless the pilot does something that takes the aircraft outside of its performance envelope. I believe a hover is well within the performance envelope of most helicopters. The only thing I can think of (short of a birdstrike or mechanical failure) in a hover that would result in a compressor stall would be if the aircraft drifted backwards into its own exhaust and caused the stall or if there was intake icing which disrupted airflow.

Loss of power in a helicopter, be it in cruise flight or a hover (although a hover is worse), is pretty much a loss of lift since helicopters are not able to glide. You try to autorotate and put it down. At that point, your survival and that of anyone else on board is more or less a matter of luck (hoping you're over terrain suitable for a more or less uncontrolled landing) and the skill of the pilot. The latter factor has been called into question as the number of experienced EMS pilots has been eroded away by military deployments and retirement of older pilots at the same time the number of helicopters has taken off (no pun intended). You said it best: it's a capitalist operation. Profit trumps everything, including installation of radar altimeters, night vision, terrain avoidance systems and better airframes that would all improve safety and minimize the number of people killed annually. The issue of profit is also to blame for the fact that the vast majority of flights are medically unnecessary and in more than a few cases, not even medically defensible. This is more or less an industry wide issue, and not limited strictly to Air Evac.

But then again, I need to "quit my day job" for I have seen the error of my ways! Praise Flight-LP! Alleluia! :roll:

"According to one of my contacts (I conduct aviation safety research as my primary occupation nowadays), the engine experienced some sort of "catastrophic failure". Whether it was an explosion is not clear, but given the similarity between this and the last crash that AirEvac had (December 30, 2007 down in Alabama), I think it says something about the maintenance department of this company. They are at the top (or pretty damn close to it) of most safety advocates' list of operations that need to be overhauled or shut down entirely."

Did these words not come from your keyboard? Maybe I am perceiving this incorrectly, but it seems to be a direct assetation.

My position is not threatened. You actually show your ignorance further by attepting to guess my position. I do not work as a flight medic. I haven't since 2006. I do not even work EMS in the U.S. anymore. Get with the times.

Since you feel the need to emphasize your superior knowledge of the aviation industry, let me throw a few things out there for you.

#1 - I too am a pilot. Have been since 1993. I hold a commercial airplane catagory license, both single and multi engine instrument, along being a CFI. I've also had 30 hours in a helicopter for my add-on catagory rating (which by the way, it is not an endorsement. An endorsement is authorized under part 61 to be given by your CFI, you have to ride with the FAA for an additional catagory rating, but then again, I am sure you already know that.......) When I return to the states, I will complete my commercial helicopter rating along with the appropriate instructor ratings.

#2 - I am type rated on the Cessna 500 series and I too have flown many air medical missions, both fixed and rotor wing. The difference being, I have sat in the front seat as PIC.

#3 - I think the above two, along with 10 years of air medical experience as a flight medic, fixed and rotor, civilian and military; does allow me to speak with a confidence in my knowledge of the industry.

You should know that one of the first steps in appropriately researching any subject is to define facts without bias. You failed to do so with your "my friend told me" statement. Yes there is a lot of issues in the industry, yes there are human failures occuring, yes there are some mechanical failures occuring. But, most of these accidents can be attributed to a human caused error in judgement. Very few are truly mechanical in nature. AEL takes a lot of heat and yes, some of it is deserved. But I will give them one thing, their mechanics do put their heart and soul into their work. Despite having ragged out underpowered machines, they do what they can. If the final NTSB report shows them at fault, well then they can pay up. Short of that, stop with the ASSumptions and the poor attempts to trump others. You may find that your 4 of a kind just got knocked down by a royal flush...............................Be safe!

[EMS49393]

They have experts that will make every effort to find the cause of the crash. Personally, I could care less what caused the crash. What is important is that three people lost their lives doing their job. Now is the time to stop being pompous know-it-all pricks and pay tribute to the lives of those involved. Unless you're some high-tech helicopter mechanic/inspector extraordinaire assigned to investigate the crash, your opinion of the cause is worthless, and as voiced by others here, not wanted in this thread.

GodSpeed to those three that lost their lives.

Disclaimer - any of you people tell anyone I have a heart, I'll deny it, and there will be hell to pay. 8)

[akflightmedic]

This is a warning to all....

As we do on another site dedicated to flight, if anymore discussion takes place on what may have happened based on mere speculation, the thread will be closed and offending posts removed.

It is customary within the flight circle to not discuss these things until preliminary findings or even the official report comes out as a matter of respect to our fallen brothers and sisters.

Feel free to offer condolences, speak of how you feel, but anymore certification listing, thereby making me better informed than you to say what happened needs to stop.

If you wish to discuss safety issues and overhauls within HEMS, please kindly start another thread.

[unknown]

This is a warning to all....

As we do on another site dedicated to flight, if anymore discussion takes place on what may have happened based on mere speculation, the thread will be closed and offending posts removed.

It is customary within the flight circle to not discuss these things until preliminary findings or even the official report comes out as a matter of respect to our fallen brothers and sisters.

Feel free to offer condolences, speak of how you feel, but anymore certification listing, thereby making me better informed than you to say what happened needs to stop.

If you wish to discuss safety issues and overhauls within HEMS, please kindly start another thread.

For once I must Stand and applaude you AK!

I work for AEL....at National Headquarters. I have experienced the pain of loosing 2 excellents crews in the last 8 mnths. We all are sickened by it to the core. One incident has NOTHING even close to do with the other! Shame on those of you who want to speculate and spew on what should be a memorance of some VERY excellent Professional Crew members. We lost a few of the BEST that ever was and EVER will be.

God Speed Sandra, Wade and Roger.

You are missed!

AND a HEARTFELT thank YOU to those of you who kept (tried to) this thread decent- it hasnt gone unheaded...........