Circumcisions

[akflightmedic]

This thread has been killing me for the past 9hrs. I have been trying to figure out how I wanted to respond. I know how I feel about this issue, but the problem I was having was putting the words together in my head.

AK, this decision is going to made by the parents, and any good parents will talk about it in length before a decision is made, as you very well know. As discussed here, there are numerous reasons for why and why not to preform (have preformed) this procedure on your (generic) son. We have heard from the hygiene side of things, this can be based off of the father not knowing how to TEACH a child to clean something he has never cleaned himself. The matter of aesthetics was heard from, Theres the issue of the fathers wanting their son to "look" like them, but should this be the "only" reason to decide? Obviously this can go well beyond just the child, however, the child taking a shower after gym class, their first sexual experience, so on and so forth, brings us to the conformity side of this argument, there are tons of girls out there that may have never seen anything like an uncircumcised penis, how is that going to effect the first sexual experience? Religion is one topic that strikes me as hilarious in this matter. How many parents will make a decision based on religious belief, but never follow it up with going to church or simple religious training for their child, how about living their lives according their religious beliefs as well.

The fact of the matter is, is that all of these "ideas" about what is right and what is wrong are exactly that......IDEAS. Yes there are medical reports and documentation out there that support both trains of thought in regards to the hygiene. There are scripture after scripture that can support the procedure and those that talk against mutilation, all of which are up to the individual interpretation. We can look for psych studies on the importance of the father's needs, and the childs needs in regards to circumcision, but it all comes down to what the parents are going to decide is best considering that it will happen (typically) within the first week of life or so (geographically dependent from what I have read here).

If it's justification your needing, or just someone to tell you that it's ok, then let me be the first to do so, and this is NOT meant to insult you in any means. I am circumcised! I have NEVER "missed" or felt like I was "missing" a part of my body. I have NO recall of day 3 of my life to know how painful the procedure was or wasn't. I am quite satisfied with my sexual experiences, and sex life. I have never had any problems with chaffing, hygiene, or "damage" to the head of my penis because the foreskin was removed. I do NOT hate my mother for making the decision that she made almost 38 years ago. I have NO desire to have the foreskin back! I would even tell you that if it grew back tomorrow, I would even consider having it removed again, for lack of knowledge, and it would then make me uncomfortable.

Did you conform to the needs of your son's mother? Yes, but the real question to you is: Did you do the wrong thing? My answer to you is a profound NO! It is done and over with, and your son is going to grow up loving you as any health young boy will whose father is in their life. You will probably NEVER hear your son ask you, "Why did you let mom cut my foreskin off of my penis dad?". I wish your son a very long and happy life with his father, and his mother.....isn't that all that matters any ways?

Yeh that was a great post aimed at me, but in no way satisified what I was after. I do not need validation or justification for what was done on my "generic" son...LOL.

My post if you reread it, wanted to know why people felt the way they did and why they did what they did as opposed to what studies say. I am just digging deeper into the psyche of everyday people such as yourselves in order to better understand the world around me.

For the most part, I think the issue boils down to comformity. No one wants to be "different", yet it is being different that has advanced us to the level we are at as a human race. The little differences add up over time. I am just insanely curious as to why we feel it is ok to perform such a senseless procedure on our infant boys based on ....what? This is the answer I seek, not an ok that what I did was right or wrong.

I am circumcised, I have never missed my foreskin, but I have wondered what it would be like. if it would be different at all. Have not thought about it enough to lose sleep, but I have indeed wondered.

As for my son, I do not regret having it done to him, I regret not being more educated and more firm in my convictions at that time and standing up for what is right (in my belief) on behalf of my "mini me".

Unlike the appendix which seems to no longer have a useful function, the foreskin does have one. Yet we just toss it to the side and alter our bodies from birth. Why not throw in a routine appendectomy just to prevent further issues of it possibly rupturing or causing peritonitis later on in life. May sound extreme but it does make a valid point.

One body part (UNSEEN), totally useless, gets to stay and play.

The other body part (readily visible) and has purpose, gets chopped and sent to the wayside.

Is this leading to the stereotyping early on of what is beautiful and what is acceptable in society? Do we think an uncircumcised penis is ugly therefore we want our boys to be beautiful so they will be accepted?

As I said, this procedure created form an ancient tribal culture ritual, no longer vallid, yet we continue to do it day after day...and again I ask, for what purpose...conformity and aesthetically pleasing.

[letmesleep]

Damnit AK, I knew that "generic" was going to bite me in the ass, and again, in NO way was I attempting to be insulting. I'm glad you didn't take it that way, but since you have redirected me........

I will first say that I don't have any sons. With that out of the way I will say with confidence that when I do have a son he will be circumcised, and I can say that because of many reasons. As I have stated in some other threads here in the "CITY" I am engaged and we have decided to start a family ASAP following the wedding. We have already discussed this issue as a couple (future parents). For her it is a matter of aesthetics, she feels that it is going to be better for our son to have the "text book perfect penis" (for lack of a better way of stating that), and that isn't meant to be insulting to those who have their intact foreskins by any means. I made a choice based on hygiene. As I stated, I am circumcised, therefore me trying to teach my child is going to be a complete nightmare. Now am I horrible for making this choice for this reason? Maybe, but the real question is, who are you to judge me?

That was another "generic" question!

We are both medics, and have done the research we needed to make our decision about this issue. Some might ask if we are taking the easy way out, but I don't feel that way. Posters here who are against circumcision may get down on us for this decision because it is painful, and barbaric, and yada yada. To that I say.....DUH! Taking in to fact the anatomy alone should tell any medical professional with any kind of brain waves that it is a painful procedure, but as I have stated before, I have no long term issues and/or problems from having this done 38 years ago. Tattoos hurt too, but I got them as well, and I would have no problems taking my son (at the right age) to go get his first. Does that make me a horrible person as well? Dust, you are excused from answering that question......LOL!

[akflightmedic]

Fair enough, I appreciate the response as that is what I wanted. Why individuals make the decision to continue whether it is based on solid evidence or more superficial reasons.

If it is purely superficial, then admit it and stand behind it. That is well within your right and there is no need to try and support it with other illogical reasoning. (This is not aimed at any poster in particular).

Now if I may, let us address the hygiene issue. Several have mentioned it is cleaner or they would not know "how to teach" their child the proper cleaning method since they do not have foreskins themselves.

Hmmm, let's think about this for a moment. When in the shower son, pull the skin back and appply soap and water, just like you do your ears, hands, butt crack, behind the knees and all the other 2000 body parts. WOW, not too hard!

Seriously, this is not rocket science, you clean while bathing.

Disclaimer: These are not attacks nor are they arguments to tell you what you should or should not do, it is merely an exercise in the art of debate. And when excuses/reasons or support are provided for an opinion, those reasons must be dissected and more closely examined.

Therefore, I am destroying the "I couldnt teach him cause I dont know myself" hygiene myth.

[letmesleep]

I accept, I would suppose that there must be another way of explaining myself. It wouldn't only stop at the "cleaning" argument, and getting back to being a medical professional with a working brain wave or two, I'll have to say that reading and asking questions could get me any answer out there I would need to teach my son how to care for his penis. There may be all kinds of issues that would/ could arise (no pun intended), that I would not be able to answer for him, again, I could research anything I may need, but If he is "built" like dad, then dad can help with no problems.

[Yalp]

More than half of boys in the USA are still circumcised due to:

* Cultural Inertia

* Conformity

* Lack of education about normal male anatomy

* Culturally learned perception that normal male anatomy looks abnormal

* Deference to actions attributable to accepted religions in the name of freedom of religion

* Physicians worried of liability if they suddenly admit they were wrong

* Circumcisions are very profitable

* Fathers who circumcise to affirm that their own circumcision was a good thing

* Physicians who perform the surgery to affirm that their own circumcision was a good thing

* American insularity leading to discounting the views and practices of non-Americans

[Arizonaffcep]

* Circumcisions are very profitable

Just for clarification, how can ANY medical procedure that takes 5 min be "very profitable?"

[Richard B the EMT]

Profits go to the mohel, who does the surgery, profits go to whoever sold the kosher wine, and profits to the bakery and the delicatessen for whatever food is purchased to be served at the celebration of the "Bris".

It's a small amount of money, but it does "spread the wealth" a bit.

[Michael]

...vs. profits to soap manufacturers and advertisers, washcloth dealers, and vendors of hot-water heaters for the extra minutes of washing each day x 365 days of each year of each uncircumcised man's lifetime...

[8877bpm]

I have a cousin who was not circumsized at birth, and when he was 12 years old, he had to have circumsison done because his foreskin got extremely tight and he had a hard time to pee. He had much pain with this surgery when he's was 12 years of age, and I think it would have been better for him to have circumsized at birth, he may not have had the pain that he felt when he was 12 years old?

[Mateo_1387]

It is not a matter of pain being felt, it is a matter of pain being remembered. Just because most people cannot remember the pain does not make the procedure right.