Chaplains in an ambulance...

[akflightmedic]

As I typically do, my opinion will be reserved for a few postings or even a day or two while the topic develops. My opinion is firm on this subject and my thoughts will not be swayed whichever way it is that they sway.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx...0d-216b6b1496e7

Chaplains in Ambulances

Reported by: Ewa Roman

Email: ewaroman@cbs21.com

Last Update: 9/02 8:03 am

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They already have chaplains in place with police, hospitals, at bars and now with EMS. Starting Monday, four local chaplains will now also begin riding along with ambulance crews!

The chaplains are with the Bethel Assembly of God Church in South Middleton Township, Cumberland County. Reverend Chuck Kish got the idea, after being on the scene of a fatal car crash.

" I remember driving up and seeing a blue tarp, it's usually one that covers a certain area, until they remove the body. I was looking at that and I noticed an EMT had walked over and pulled back the tarp and the look on his face was familiar to me and I thought, he could really use a chaplain right now," said Reverend Chuck Kish, Bethel Assembly of God Church.

There are no set schedules for these chaplain ambulance ridealongs. Reverend Kish says each of them will volunteer to go out with an ambulance when they have time, or as they're called upon.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Drastically inappropriate, at best. Not our job, nor our position to be offering chaplaincy. Period.

[brentoli]

I don't think the chaplain is offered for the victim's/patients/family as much as they are offering it for the crews? Or did I read it wrong. Plenty of PD's across the country have chaplains in their departments that volunteer. These men and women spend hours of their time riding out with the officers, seeing their job and getting to know them. I don't think they do it so much to minister to the officers, as they do to become a resource in the officers network. In that capacity, I believe it is a fine idea. Just as long as these guys aren't going out to try and minister to every family the ambulance comes across. Chaplain's have taken on more of a social worker/victim advocates role anyway. Maybe there should be another title for this service, to take the religious stereotypes away.

[PRPGfirerescuetech]

Maybe I read it wrong.

AK, clarify this, since you are the OP and all.

[AnthonyM83]

I'm not even really that religious, but I think it's a fine idea if they can come up with a system that works and doesn't interfere with medical treatment. Comforting patient is certainly part of our job...religious comfort isn't necessarily, but WE'RE not doing it, the chaplain ride-alongs are.

Just like they make visits in the hospital, they can visit in the field to provide support that many many people would appreciate. What's the harm (provided they ask if they want prayer, rather than forcing their services and that members of any religion can serve as chaplains)...

[firedoc5]

I don't have a problem with it. Especially if they jump in and give a helping hand.

[Arizonaffcep]

I can see some issues with this...

1. (Personality dependant of the chaplain) They may try to step in and end up interfering with Pt care.

2. If they get involved with Pt care, asked to by crews or not, where is their liability?

3. If this is for the crews, then where does CISM/CISD come into play?

Not necessarily a bad idea, as long as these things are addressed. The biggest question is, is this necessary? With CISM/CISD in place and available when needed, do we need another "vent?"

[VentMedic]

I can see some issues with this...

3. If this is for the crews, then where does CISM/CISD come into play?

Not necessarily a bad idea, as long as these things are addressed. The biggest question is, is this necessary? With CISM/CISD in place and available when needed, do we need another "vent?"

CISM/CISD? That has lost a lot of favor in the past 10+ years. Its effectiveness and potential for harm was even questioned in the later 1980s when CISD was first being implimented in some of the EMS agencies. But, EMS will buy into any quick fix or another "cert".

Good article by Dr. Bledsoe

http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/colu...g_Vampires.html

If EMS is ever going to evolve into a bona fide profession, we have to give up these anecdotal practices. Why do EMS professionals not go away in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence? Sometimes, convincing them is akin to killing vampires.

CISM has been debunked repeatedly through scientific scrutiny by some of the world's foremost authorities on psychological trauma. In fact, it has almost become a punch line or poster child for pseudoscientific practice. In a recent academic debate by the British Psychological Society (BPS) on "the worst idea on the mind," post trauma debriefing (e.g., Critical Incident Stress Debriefing, or CISD) scored third behind prefrontal lobotomy and the chemical imbalance model of mental illness as a pseudoscientific practice. Numerous randomized controlled trials, some conducted in the last two years, have repeatedly shown CISM to be ineffective and potentially harmful. Dr. Scott Lilienfeld, a prominent researcher into pseudoscientific practices in psychology, listed CISM at the top of his list of potentially harmful therapies. Interestingly, the volume and quality of the evidence against CISM was much greater than all other therapies he listed. Other seemingly intuitive therapies -- such as "Scared Straight" and "D.A.R.E." -- have also proven harmful. In addition, simple grief counseling for those with normal bereavement reactions is also considered harmful. One has to wonder whether the "shattered dreams" program, so popular in EMS, is beneficial or harmful.

http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/colu...g_Vampires.html

[DwayneEMTP]

Ridiculous.

To those of you that thought it was a good idea, or at least didn't see the harm...

How many calls do you run in a day?

Of those, how many even required a paramedic?

In your normal year, how many vile, disgusting or just simply disturbing things are you going to see/treat?

Of that tiny number, how many are going to affect you emotionally?

Out of those that will touch you emotionally, how many will be beyond your ability to cope using the mental tools you already posses?

I'm going to guess that the vast majority of us have answered 0-very few, all along. And if this is the case, why would we want to ride an amateur on the truck 24/7 when the only possible necessary short term skill they provide is to carry crap? The fact that the quoted preacher knew instantly that the basic needed a councilor shows perfectly that he has no idea what's needed in EMS. I've paused, had to think, had to overcome anger, or the fact that I was kneeling in blood and vomit, and I'm sure much of that may have shown on my face the same as it may have with this basic. But the last thing I needed was a preacher. These preachers are looking to justify their under appreciated education and skill sets. Good for them...Do it somewhere else.

Successful preachers, of which I have two uncles, like other successful professional don't have the time to run around glory seeking. They have full lives to live. I don't have high expectations for those that do have the time to sit in an ambulance doing nothing full time.

Sounds to me like there are some preachers, like many others, trying to work themselves a spot on the ambulance without having to bother with all that silly medical training. Let's let them get their jollies elsewhere. If you are so delicate that you need instant counciling, then you really need to get a different job.

This is a silly, dangerous idea without even the semblance of thought put behind it....I'm gonna have to go with not only no, but hell no.

Dwayne

[Chief1C]

We've called one to a scene, at the request of a patients family. But just like everyone else, no visitors in the back while enroute (unless someone is on deaths doorstep-and doesn't want any help from us to prevent that). I don't and I won't pray with patients, it makes me uncomfortable. I'll gladly hold their hand, while they do it.

I'm not a religious person, in fact I get very pissed when people try to press their beliefs upon me. I use the box as a neutral, judgment free environment. If we have people afraid to talk, because of someone listening in, be it a cop, a fellow employee, the press or a priest.. It may damage what little safe haven of trust, that may exist in the back of the ambulance.