Chaplains in an ambulance...

[Dustdevil]

I acquired a surprisingly serious respect for the Chaplaincy in Iraq. So much so that I -- who has never been particularly religious at all, and often anti-religious -- now believe that professional chaplains can be of value in EMS. Of course, military chaplains are much, much different than the average church elder or mail-order preacher who proclaims himself to be a "chaplain". While I am sure there are many of those who are truly devoted and qualified, I would be very sceptical of their value to my patients and my people. But knowing what great things military chaplains are capable of, from my personal experiences, I would not ever hesitate to have one available for my patients. And, in fact, I found myself referring patients to them often in Iraq. Two years later, my Chaplain from my first tour in Iraq remains a very good friend here in the states. He's always there for me and many of my buddies. He was there with us when the shyte was hitting the fan, so he knows what we have faced, what our strengths are, and what our needs are, regardless of religious beliefs. You can't ask for a better friend than that. And in a rural, long transport system, I can definitely see the value he might offer my patients.

[akflightmedic]

Re read Dust, the article was more about the chaplain being there for the providers, not the patients...although I am sure they would happily oblige.

As for the Iraq and the good work they do, that is subjective but no need to argue that one. After all, this is a religious war and we need to know we are right in the eyes of god to do what we do. I love the commercials over here...Be Army Strong, Be Chaplain Strong, Be God Strong

Invoking the higher powers for death and destruction against a faith that believes in the same god, not a real compelling argument despite Palin stating us being there is a mission from god....LOL.

Sorry for the tangent...they just do not belong on the box as there are a thousand other ways to get their services to those who REQUEST it.

[DwayneEMTP]

Dwayne,

Who said we were using the chaplains at the scene? Do you think police chaplains are useless as well? The chaplains I have dealt with at the police department I work for, don't try to impart religion on anyone they deal with. They simply work in a social setting, as a resource for the EMPLOYEES. When requested by an officer or the family, they will meet with them but their main concern is the employees of the organization.

How is that wrong? Our chaplain works as a resource anyone in this department can go and talk to confidentially, they are there for our families and for us anytime 24/7.

Whats wrong with them doing some ride-along's to see what the people they are there for see everyday?

You are absolutely right. The article is clear that they are doing ride alongs and didn't state that they were going to be on trucks full time. I got hung up on the preacher stating that the EMT on scene needed a councilor then and there. (As I read it.) I'm afraid I went running off at the mouth with bad, assumed information.

If they are riding for the purpose of continuing their education to better provide requested services to those they minister to...then I stand corrected. I absolutely believe that ministers have tremendous value to those that approach them and request help. Anything beyond that I am opposed to.

Thanks for taking the time to point out my laziness, and not allowing me to continue in that vein.

Dwayne

[Michael]

when the chaplain said " I could see the look on that man's face and knew he needed a chaplain immeidtaely" or some BS to that effect. Yeh whatever buddy, I am sure I have made many contorted, hurt, or even sad faces over the years. Never once did I think, damn I wish I had a chaplain here.

That look will come to each of us one day. :wink:

[Dustdevil]

The benefits that I saw provided in Iraq were not so much religious as they were emotional and spiritual. Again, I am not Christian, so if religious counsel was all they provided, I would have no use for them. I witnessed them providing spiritual, emotional, and psychological comfort to people in need -- patients and providers alike -- and doing it quite well. I would not, however, assume that all who call themselves a "chaplain" have that same capability. But the military screens and trains their guys pretty well.

[Just Plain Ruff]

DUST DUST DUST You seem to be back yet you seem not to be your old self. Did you have a clot break off when you were broken?

I'm so glad to see you back posting.

I do believe that chaplains and pastors and the like could (read could) provide a valuable service but not while ridin on the ambulance. They can be there as observers like I said before. But apart from that not a good idea.

Waht I am getting at is it might be a good idea to employ a couple of chaplains but those chaplains have to understand that they are not to push their religion on anyone. If the patient asks for it then by all means do it.

I also think that the chaplains need to be more of like Father Mulcahy from MASH who was sort of a chaplain of all trades and was able to provide comfort to all religions not just catholics.

If they can separate the religions and provide for all people then let's hire a gaggle of them.

[Richard B the EMT]

You can have all the legal authority in the world, sometimes you need moral authority.

It matters not what religion practiced by the EMT City members, Amen to that!

[akflightmedic]

You can have all the legal authority in the world, sometimes you need moral authority.

Are you implying there is only one sole authority on morality?

Are you saying one can not have morals independent of religion?

[toutdoors]

Riding the fence on this topic. I can understand that if an agency has a specified chaplain that is a member of the orginization, even if only by title, than it may shine a little light onto the type of things that are encountered on the streets. The informal, very sporadic ride along for a few hours, if invited, could not hurt the relationship between the employees and the chaplain, minister, priest, or what ever titles are out there. I think this would be more for the benefit of building a relationship between employees and the spiritual guidance person involved. I have seen a few excellent spiritual officials, (chaplains, minister, preacher, pastor.....) that can offer some comfort, or support, or just a kind word, and squeeze on the shoulder. These people were not even telling me to turn to God for serenity or comfort, they were simply being kind, compassionate human beings. At times the kind word was a help, and at others, it did not change a thing, depending on the circumstance, and more importantly, the person involved. Some of their education and training in counseling helps them be able to provide this type of support, of course their calling is in the religious domain, so one could expect to hear some mention of God while talking to them. Whether a person wants to accept their offer is up to that individual. Then again some people would rather talk to co workers, a shrink, or a beer bottle to deal with their troubles, what ever works for you.

As far as the spiritual person being there for the pt's? Ah, not real hip on that idea, for the simple reason that the pt may be taken aback by the presence of the chaplain. Then let's not forget the impression it may leave on the pt. They may feel real doomed if an EMT, paramedic and chaplain all show up together. Could make them feel that the chaplain is there as the "hail mary" shot in case the EMT and medic can't correct the problem. (no pun intended)

Seriously though, as far as Assembly of God is concerned, I have met with a lot of people from this background. My ex wife was a member. The one thing I have personally learned is that there are 3 people that I actually liked after getting to know them. ( Obviously the ex isn't one of them) One was a pastor who took his time to talk to me in a true moment of need, and he was very compassionate, and understanding that I was born, raised, baptized, and confirmed in a totally different religion; he respected that, and just sat and talked to me in general terms. I still think of that man from time to time, and am thankful he was there when I needed someone, and didn't know where to turn. The rest of the folks I have met from this walk of life are different than I am, and that is ok with me. If their choice of worship suits them fine, but please respect my personal preference, and try not to get too overbearing with me. This is a trait I have seen time and again with this faith, as well as a couple of others.

If a pt is near death, and family wants their religious leader with them during the transport, I would try to make concessions for granting their wish. Of course this scenario I would mean a hospice type pt that was being transported for some reason, and they requested spiritual counsel to come along. If it will put the pt and family at ease, and will not hinder the limited care that may be provided, or create an unsafe condition, I would try my best to fulfill the wishes of family and pt. I am always willing to make the phone call for a family member who has just experienced a loss. If that one phone call will bring someone to the scene that has an established relationship with the family, and can offer comfort and support than that is the least I can do for the family. I am a christian, and fairly spiritual, but you will not hear me on my soapbox trying to save any or all of you from your possibly damning lifestyles. My spiritual life is personal, I will not push it onto you, nor judge you; that is not my role.

I know some will say "no way, never gonna happen in my rig." That is fine, it is your call. I just don't believe that this is a black and white environment that we work in. Yes there are rules, my company allows one family member to ride up front if they wish to ride along. On some of the peds pts, we let a parent ride in back to help comfort the pt, if it will not hinder pt care. Here is another example that I will take execption to. As I stated earlier, if a clergy member of some sort is requested to ride along to comfort the pt and family in the event that the pt dies during transport, or is expected to shortly after arrival at the destination; I will bend my companies policies to suit the needs of what I would consider pt and family care at that given moment. All cases being weighed and judged on their own circumstances and no hard fast rules however.

Just my thoughts.

[mrmeaner]

But the military screens and trains their guys pretty well.

On that point, the chaplain in the article did sound a little wackerish. I guess fire and ems aren't the only careers where people are willing to give away their services. He made it sound like the EMT was going to break down on the spot if he wasn't consoled by super-chaplain.

I can see where a service would like to provide a resource for people; however as was stated earlier, without providing a resource for every religous group and sect, it would be opening itself up to complaints. Also, during the "getting to know your EMT" phase, if I were a patient, I would likely give less information knowing there was a chaplain along for the ride.

Personally, I would have no use for a chaplain before, during or after a call. But I'm not going to stand in the way of someone who does. I would rather see co-workers look out for each other than rely on a chaplain to see problems.