just a thought...suicide.

[mcmikeguy]

I, at first, was influenced greatly by my big EMS siblings. The common consensus, in a nutshell, was that suicide attempts got what they deserve and that it is only the great intangable governing body Ethics that causes one to set their opinions aside and treat the attempt. As I have gained my own experiences I feel I have earned an opinion of my very own. Excluding the B/S suicide attempts, you know the chicken scratches on the arm or the threat over the phone to mom, girlfriend etc.... the 3rd party call to EMS that don't amount to any distress what-so-ever. Those burn a person out I agree. I mean the guy you find that is really dying and doesn't want you to stop it. There must be something big going on there. Think about all of the impending doom expressions you have seen. That is a fear like no other. In general, humans have the same drive to survive when it comes down to the wire that all other animals do. Mice don't give up when the cat has obviously won. Yet, in a small percent of people a drive stronger that sex, stronger than pain is bypassed, or overridden. How does one lose the will to survive? Its a bigger picture than sad, pain, or weakness. How many cancer patients have you seen hold on to the very end? What a horrible why to die. So pain isn't it.

Long before the the life experiences that EMS has bestowed, my dad attempted suicide. It didn't work and he recovered to return to his existence as a very depressed alcoholic. Their was the opinion proposed to me that it was for attention. Maybe. I'll never know. He had passed about 10 years ago from ETOH abuse. I was taught that having a parent that committed suicide increases the risk in that person. A long time ago I too had to be treated for ideations. No attempt, I was close, but it was real to me. I have made great strides in treating depression, I even gave up alcohol before it was a problem. To this day I cannot fully understand what was happening in my head. I can give you a first hand account of what its like, but answers I don't have.

I know that attention was the last thing I wanted. I don't recall any behaviors that could be considered a "a cry for help". I was obviously depressed, but not obviously social. I had a counselor at the time, I knew how to avoid a 72 hour hold, and I did. I went to the hospital on my own accord. But what if there was some hang up about going to the hospital. I know I had a lot more excuses to not go than to go. I'm not sure how that day went but I ended up treated.

The point is, its old and out dated to say one has right to kill themselves. I am telling you from experience that, if you have a patient that is a serious case there is something as wrong as an MI. Psychology has progressed far enough to show as that it is possible to have a mind so disrupted that one can kill themselves despite will to live. At that the moment just before they end their life there is no "impending doom" no fear. I reconsidered but was not afraid. I don't know why. I challenge every EMS provider to ask themselves if they haven't "what if I'm looking at this wrong". Illness can be psychological as well as physiological. There is something that I can not explain that goes beyond selfish or weak.

[Timmy]

I see..... :?

[WendyT]

Read my blog there is a statement I wrote, perhaps if we did something, knew before hand, would he still be alive?

I attended a funeral wednesday for an 18 yr old who committed, his uncle found him the next day in the garage. There was no letter, except for the one the ex-girl friend wrote to him.

I watched as his mother held the box in which his cremated remains were as she kissed her only child one last time.

You may be angry how stupid people are when they do stupid things like this, but where's your compassion, didn't God or buddha or whatever you believe teach you anything.

I may not understand where it is you come from or are coming from, or what ground you hide in but like you I'm angry too, but I'm also sad because my friend had to bury her son, who was hurting and I guess he made the wrong decision in life. So what does this tell us, it tells us that NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE, DON'T PROCEED TO DO HARM TO YOURSELF, REACH OUT-WE ARE HERE FOR YOU.

www.snodgrassfuneralhomes.com under the name: Cody Grier found in Service Annoucments

[Dustdevil]

Illness can be psychological as well as physiological.

Post of the year.

Too bad that way too few will get it.

[mcmikeguy]

I would like to add that I am a stable, level headed guy. I been doing well for a long time. In fact the few people I have told where surprised, even those who knew me then. I learned some limits and what it looks like to approach them. The insight I gained, though painful, is a rare perspective that, fortunately, few healthcare professionals get. It hits a sore spot when I see a lack of compassion for serious mental complaints. I try to keep that in mind before I speak-up, but there is a need for some professionals to reconsider their position on the subject, from first responders to MD's.

[emt322632]

Unfortunately in EMS classes, psychology is covered very little. It's more of a "see the physical, treat the physical" mentality.

So when someone calls EMS, and there is nothing physically wrong, we tend to say, "Oh, they're just doing it for attention..." In reality, we have no idea how to treat this person who may or may not be crying out for help.

Burn out may play a factor, but I think education plays an even bigger one. Glad to hear you're doing alright, and welcome to the City!

[fireflymedic]

First off bravo for opening yourself up to a group of peers like this ! It takes guts to do that, and I applaud anyone willing to bring difficult issues to light. Now, as far as mental illness, depression, the like within EMS workers it's something that I think the profession needs to take a HARD look at. How many alcoholic medics do you know? I know many. Several that are just burnt out and it's lead to problems with their personal and professional lives. We sit here and claim all day long that EMS and fire are a family, however depression within our community is the "family secret". One is expected to just suck it up and not ask for help when they are having problems for fear of losing their job. Instead we should be offering options (bravo to the companies with the employee assistance plans that are confidential - but they are few and far between) for employees to get confidential help that is truly that - CONFIDENTIAL. Where they can speak freely and not have to worry about losing their job or whatever. I think we've all hit a low at one point in time and that assistance would have been appreciated no matter how tough we make ourselves out to be.

Now that being said, I do feel that if an employee is severely impaired, they should be moved from the patient care setting at least temporarily. I fully agree if an employee is actively having mental issues or severely depressed, they cannot adequately care for their patients, the same as with an employee experiencing any other physical malady. You wouldn't expect a person with an actively healing fracture to be on the truck, well the same goes for psychological issues. But I think we should view them as equal and not condemn an EMS/fire worker for having problems. You wouldn't fire them for breaking their arm, why find a way to fire them for experiencing depression. I think we become more proactive in treatment, we'd see more content workers and also better coping skills. I've noticed personally that some of the services which have the lowest turn over may not have the best pay or benefits, but they treat their employees fairly and they are appreciated. I know I've stayed places that weren't as good because I felt treated well rather than that they didn't care.

Just food for thought. It's all illness. Psychological or physical and it all needs treated appropriately and with compassion from our end and the other. Even if it is "just for attention", the person is needing help for something and we should sit up and listen. It's our job as healthcare providers to deal with it with compassion and help where we can. We may not fix the problem, but for that moment we can help.

[mcmikeguy]

I am glad to see that there are people left in the field with compassion. I don't know why it is so difficult to help employees with stress. the Best thing I have ever been offered was to talk to a peer that was trained in CISD. A peer was the last thing I wanted. The problem I have is being judged by police, fire, EMS people. I agree that their needs to be another look taken at the mental health of public servants. Its become traditional to drink, get divorced, have nightmares, get PTSD, and die young of heart trouble. IT'S BULL. We are delaying our own progress. Medicine evolves constantly but are we, are our employers?

[Dustdevil]

Medicine evolves constantly but are we, are our employers?

Employers love CISD because it costs them nothing. Therefore, they have a vested interest in it's perpetuation.

Professional counselling costs money, so employers don't want to hear about it. But quite simply, you get what you pay for.

[emtannie]

Employers love CISD because it costs them nothing. Therefore, they have a vested interest in it's perpetuation.

Professional counselling costs money, so employers don't want to hear about it. But quite simply, you get what you pay for.

I don't know about other areas, but employers I have worked with have professional counselling included in the benefits packages.

I'm not sure how CISD costs nothing. The CISD staff I have dealt with were all psychologists and psychiatrists, and get paid for services. Again, that might just be the region I work in.

mcmikeguy, welcome to the site, and I hope you visit often. Your first posts have been insightful and encourage thought and discussion.