Depressing ems story from England

[Eydawn]

One human action not directly taken to avoid pain or seek pleasure: Refusing to give up and die, pressing on in extremely painful conditions in order to survive. Survival does not equal pleasure.

And that's just the first thing that came to mind.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[zzyzx]

Eyedawn,

You're making a mistake in putting yourself in this woman's place and considering what you'd do in that situation. You are in a sane, rational state of mind. This woman obviously is not. Saying that she should just pull herself up by the bootstraps and persevere is pretty naive. Sorry, but I'm gonna have to agree with Dust on this one (though I don't support the trash talking).

[Eydawn]

Is that what you got from my posts? Good lord, man. I thought I was a lot clearer about what I was saying.

I'm not putting myself in her shoes and obviously she must have been really far gone to drink HCl in front of the kiddos... HOWEVER, what I am advocating is not condoning the act of suicide and just saying it's ok because the person was in a lot of pain. No, it *WASN'T* ok, and while she obviously suffered from severe mental illness, she went and drank the stuff, so YES, she is responsible for that action.

From what I can read in here, Dust is advocating that every person has the right to pursue pleasure and avoid pain, even if avoiding the pain means offing yourself. Is that what you agree with? I do feel sorry for her, for the darkness she must have been in, and I feel even sorrier for the poor children.

Pulling oneself up by the bootstraps and persevering in the face of hardship are not one and the same, at least not the way I've always thought about it. If every one of us gave up when we encountered something that we perceived to be "too hard," however we defined it, the world as we know it would not exist. Perseverance in the face of adversity is a GOOD thing. And while one's ability to do so in terms of challenging one's own depression depends on the causes and severity, it is possible for people with severe depression to NOT commit suicide, even though they may have had the ideations or intent. Hell, I even know people who've tried, failed, and then never tried again because they realized what they were doing.

Also, do not assume that I do not understand the lack of lucidity and clouded thinking that goes along with depression, and that I'm just blithely applying normal thought processes and assuming they are the same for the woman we've been discussing. That would be a bad assumption.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Dustdevil]

Survival does not equal pleasure.

It does, at the very least, equal the pursuit of pleasure, which is the same thing.

And if she chooses not to survive, that is her prerogative. It's none of your business.

[zzyzx]

Eyedawn, Sorry that I misunderstood some of what you were saying. Anyway, a sad story, enough said.

[jsadin]

I would never say what she did was ok, but I would not interfere with her right to take her own life either. Is it reprehensible, disgusting and with complete disregard for her children? Yep. No question. I'm not a big fan of abortion either, but if a woman choses to have one then who am I to say she can't?

[Eydawn]

Then why do we as EMS providers have 72 hour psychiatric holds that we place patients in *all* the time? Why do we bother to transport intentional overdoses?

Just sayin'...

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[defib_wizard]

Then why do we as EMS providers have 72 hour psychiatric holds that we place patients in *all* the time? Why do we bother to transport intentional overdoses?

real simple: because we have to. Why do you try to save the drunk that just wiped out a family? Because you took the job thats why.

We are not to judge what is right or wrong. However-We have the right to vent about the things we see to coworkers and now to0 colleagues in this forum.

This event if true is a tragedy not for the mother but for her children.

[TDP]

Don't they teach WHIMIS over there?

[irish_emt_in_tx]

Quite depressing indeed. I have had my share of low times, and actually thought about doing the unthinkable once. But as my good friend told me, no matter what is going on, that is a long term solution to a short term problem.