Suicide among EMS/Fire personnel

[ERDoc]

Where are you located and how far are you willing to travel?

Doing a pubmed search, it looks like there was a JEMS article on this topic in April 1995. I do not have access to JEMS, but it may be worth checking out (though it will be a little outdated).

[john51071]

Where are you located and how far are you willing to travel?

I am currently located in North Carolina. I am most likely moving back to Louisiana in the next 6-8 weeks. I am willing to consider anything in the continental US--I love to travel. Why stay in one place all the time? The eastern half of the US is more realistic...draw an imaginary line from Texas to Michigan, and anywhere east of there. I will send you a private message also, and send you contact info.

[paramedicmike]

We just don't know or understand what is actually going through their head at the time they take their own life.

Then how can you sit there and seriously argue that it's a selfish act? Are you so blind that you can't see the fault in your own argument?

-be safe

[letmesleep]

Then how can you sit there and seriously argue that it's a selfish act? Are you so blind that you can't see the fault in your own argument?

-be safe

I think your so caught up in trying to prove that I'm the ignorant one that you are failing to read my posts. I stated that YOU and DUST have been arguing the point in which you quoted. I re-read my statement and realize that I used a period rather than a comma, but YOUR argument to me last nite was that I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR HEAD, in a nut shell, again as long as I understood YOU and DUST correctly. I conceded to you the selfish argument following your post showing me that it makes no sense when dealing with irrational people, sick people. So please try reading what I wrote before you jump up on YOUR high horse and chastise me.

[paramedicmike]

Just responding to what you wrote. If you don't want people to misunderstand you then you need to write what you mean and be sure it's presented so that people understand.

Just sayin'...

[fireflymedic]

You can walk a mile in someone else's shoes, then when you're done laugh because the only thing is that you've walked a mile and you're wearing their shoes

Even if you could walk in that person's shoes for a day, you wouldn't understand or comprehend what the thought process behind them was. You didn't have all the contributing factors over a long period of time. Perhaps it was the job, perhaps it was the failed relationship partly from the job, maybe it was that they had some underlying issues that predisposed them to this - who knows and who am I to judge? I've dealt with many a psych patient, as I'm sure most of us have, and while there are those that are doing nothing more than attempting to manipulate the situation and the people within their lives, there are truly those that are just pained so deeply they don't see any feasible way out of the situation they are in. Consider the schizophrenic who is incredibly intelligent, used to hold a respectable job, then as his illness progressed, he deteriorated to the point he lost it, many treatments were tried with no success, he no longer has a family, a job, and to him he has lost his entire fulfillment of self worth. Charged by the voices in his head which have taken over, he commits suicide to release himself from the torment which he faces daily. Is that selfish? Hardly that is a mind driven to a point that neither you nor I can understand as we have not been there. It is easy to sit back and say well that was selfish, he just quit trying, but I hardly see it as such. I'm not sure in that situation any amount of counseling may have prevented the situation. It was indeed as it is called - mental illness and sadly just like any other illness sometimes people die from it.

As far as the coworker suicide issue, I am very aware of some of the thoughts which go behind it. I think all of the opinions voiced here are really in a way just different variations of the stages of grieving. We like to think as healthcare providers that we are superman and that nothing we see ever gets to us. But I know better after several years in this field. I also know that not anywhere near enough time is spent on talking to students beforehand about what to truly expect when they enter this job, nor is there any form of support when they experience difficulty within the field. I know from a firsthand experience, that often times you may want to discuss something over simply to come to terms with it in your own way, but you're afraid to say anything because you know the negative impact it may hold on your job if they see you ever sought help for a psych issue - be it stress from the job or personal issues which may be affecting your job. It's sad that we have that thought process but truly good EMS jobs are hard to come by, and those that are usually involve a psych eval - admit yes to that answer and well, there went your chances at a job. It's yes or no, no explanations permitted at least in my experience. They are looking for the best and it's competitive and well, any negative mark on your history of any sort reduces your chances. Also, I know it goes through the minds of potential employers of well this was a problem before, will it be a problem again rather than okay this was a problem before, they got treatment, issue resolved/being managed. It is the narrow minded thoughts as expressed by some others on here that leads to this ignorant mentality further contributing to the problem. Mental healthcare is one of the worst fields overall as many are just swept under the rug and ignored - around here they are lumped in with mental retardation which is a stupid thing to do as really the two have nothing to do with each other. You are not retarded if you have depression - it is an illness which can be treated or managed. That's just my thoughts for discussion may be worth two cents or not. Take it as you will.

[tniuqs]

fire_911medic

Bravo a most excellent post, but if you would be so kind to allow me to add.

Suicide is Painless (Mash Theme Song)

(Mike Altman and Johnny Mandel)

Through early morning fog I see

Visions of the things to be,

The pains that are withheld for me,

I realize and I can see...

That suicide is painless,

It brings on many changes

And I can take or leave it if I please.

The game of life is hard to play,

I'm going to loose it anyway,

The loosin' card I'll someday lay;

So this is all I have to say...

That suicide is painless,

It brings on many changes

And I can take or leave it if I please.

The only way to win is cheat

And lay it down before I'm beat

And to another give my seat

For that's the only painless feat.

That suicide is painless,

It brings on many changes

And I can take or leave it if I please.

And you can do the same thing if you please.

This MASH thing is where we ALL came from, take time to reflect that this conumdrum has been pondered for many years before we most of us were even born.

5 out of 24 in my graduating Class (have at their own hand) moved on in their individual Journeys.

I for one will NEVER JUDGE WHY but I miss them and I do know what they stood for that is all that I know for certian, What they stood for is all that matters to me.

cheers

[Dustdevil]

Being lumped into the same category as firemonkeys by this thread is depressing enough to make me want to kill myself.

[Mateo_1387]

letmesleep, what is the problem with suicide being a selfish act? Many actions during our day are selfish in nature.

Not wanting someone to commit suicide because others rely on them is selfish, IMO.

I really do not think suicide is the right answer to mental problems because there is so much that can be treated to fix or curb the problem. For persons who suffer non treatable physical ailments, suicide is acceptable. It all depends on "why" someone wants to commit suicide.

[Kaisu]

Suicide happens when the pressures to commit suicide outweigh the resources available to the individual to cope. I personally spent about 25 years struggling with the issue. I would be hit with a wave of depression that would last for months. Imagine a painful toenail - the first day its no big deal - by the end of the week you would want to cut the toe off. Depression and emotional pain wear a person down. Imagine waking up day after day feeling awful. Nothing gives pleasure - in fact, numbness would be an improvement over the aching, almost unimaginable pain. Now compound that with society's lack of understanding - people sick of dealing with your shit - others telling you to "get over it" - the feeling that you are fundamentally flawed - not right - and never will be. Can you imagine that? Try living it - over and over and over for many decades.

What got me through one period would fail the next. One time it was thoughts of my kids - the next time my mind convinced me that they were better off without me. Another time it was fear of hell - the next, hell couldn't be as bad as this - at least there would be a reason for feeling this bad. The final time was radical acceptance - that if I felt like this forever well fine - be that as it may I was tough enough to cope. The next time? - who knows. I don't think there will ever be another next time but no one has that guaranty.

The answer for me? fill my life with friends, support structures, sound nutrition, rest and exercise. Laugh every day, read and educate myself. Do meaningful and useful work. Go to church. Have things in place so that if I need to reach out I can. For anyone dealing with this, PM me - talk to me - I know a lot about this shit and so far I have beaten it.

God bless