FD Launches In-House Paramedic Education Program

[sirduke]

I notice that my earlier post was connivently ignored. So I will ask again.

How would the Firefighters like it is it was EMS trying to take over their "profession"? So that EMS could control the funds.

And how much goes into EMS equipment and training as opposed to how much is spent on shiny red fire trucks and fire toys?

How many calls per year actually require a fire engine as opposed to how many calls require an ambulance? And again, I am talking about really REQUIRING a fire engine, not how many just got a fire engine because that's how you roll.

The bottom line is Fire wants to take over EMS because they want to control the money. Just like grandma in the back room with the crackheads living off her SSI.

On any given day, compare the number of fires against the number of medical calls, we've figured out how to reduce fires, but we've yet to find a way to stop aging and dying and injurys. Fire was quick to see this and start moving to take over so they control the money. We were sleeping because we'd been running all night.

[MemphisE34a]

I notice that my earlier post was connivently ignored. So I will ask again.

How would the Firefighters like it is it was EMS trying to take over their "profession"? So that EMS could control the funds.

First of all, we are a joint service so you cannot say that one controls the funds over the other. More to your point, where in the hell have you been? EMS has taken over nearly every fire department in the nation. I can assure you that I would rather not make all the BS EMS runs, but it is part of the job. In order to go to fires, BS runs automatically come with them. As many of you enjoy twisting words and reading extra stuff into people's posts, I am not saying all EMS runs are BS.

And how much goes into EMS equipment and training as opposed to how much is spent on shiny red fire trucks and fire toys?

Really not a fair comparison because there are more engines, trucks, and firefighter/EMT's than there are ambulances and paramedics. I know your next argument is going to be that we should be eliminating engines and trucks and increasing the number of ambulances. You are partly correct - we can always use more ambulances, but eliminating one aspect of the service is not the answer.

Toys? Kinda childish don't you think?

How many calls per year actually require a fire engine as opposed to how many calls require an ambulance? And again, I am talking about really REQUIRING a fire engine, not how many just got a fire engine because that's how you roll.

I do not have accurate numbers. I could speculate however that it is nearly the same percentage of the time that we REALLY need an ambulance as opposed to say.....a taxi.

On any given day, compare the number of fires against the number of medical calls, we've figured out how to reduce fires, but we've yet to find a way to stop aging and dying and injurys.

Although I know you will disagree, again you are comparing apples and oranges. Sure there are many, many more EMS calls than fires on any given day. Normally however, that EMS call is dealing with a single patient and a minimal or no economic impact to the patient or community. A single fire has the potential to kill you, destroy your home, and progress through your entire neighborhood if left unchecked. Precisely why it would not make sense to cut or eliminate one service for the other. They should both be funded appropriately. You obviously think that a fire department is not capable of doing so.

It is also priceless by the way, that despite your "advanced" education and vast medical knowledge, you don't know how to spell injuries.

DustDevil - Although we certainly disagree on many points, I saw in another thread where you are in the military and have been deployed to Iraq. I wanted to thank you for your service to our country.

[mfdffp]

Wow! I take the kids to the grandparents for the weekend and this thing blows up even bigger.

First, thanks for the compliment about bringing intelligent conversation and facts into the discussion earlier. Second, I couldn't keep up with all of the posts, but here are a few random comments that I have in mind:

I am like Barry in that I no longer ride the units regularly as I was promoted into a new spot. Again, promotion is something that is, or should be, available in all services whether they be fire, private, or hospital so please do not use that against the FD. However, I do still participate by making EMS calls on the truck and teaching ACLS, PALS, and ITLS.

Barry and I are part of a growing trend in the department that has helped to decrease, if not eliminate, any bias by the "old" fire guys toward EMS.

I have a friend who is a paramedic with FDNY. I understand that there is still a great bias in NYC and often times the fire companies do not even get out on an EMS call. That's their system. It isn't right, but we can't control it. Many of you got on Kramer's back because of some of his comments. As Barry said, he's very intelligent, but doesn't always present his arguments in a tactful manner. One thing you should know about him is that he is a good EMT and by being in charge of that engine company, he will tear you a new one if you even consider not making pt. contact while riding on the engine company and, again, he will wade in up to his elbows if he needs to.

Someone asked about BC's and ALS companies. As Kramer said, he is in charge of the scene, not patient care, and he knows that and doesn't try to interfere. There are EMS Lt.'s and Battalion Chief's in the field to supervise pt. care. Each house with a unit has an ALS company.

I have heard a lot about LA and the west coast also. I don't know why, but they seem to have (in general, I cannot speak to individual medics or systems) a lot of problems with some skills. I know an ER doc from southern California that says a lot of that has to do with how tightly they control what the medics do in that area and he actually pointed to the nurses unions as fighting anything to do with helping EMS in the region. Again, second hand information, but the only info that I have.

As Barry said, we have a very progressive medical director and chief of EMS. We are taught to think and given latitude in our decisions and not required to call for orders for every patient or simply follow protocol XYZ to the letter.

Someone spoke of the FD's wanting EMS to get the money. I'm not sure about your area, but money is not to be made by providing EMS in a urban area here. Most of the calls go unpaid because the pt. doesn't have money, insurance, etc.

I understand that many of you are on your side of the street and we are on ours, but I too have worked for every kind of EMS service and I think that this is the best model that I have worked for. Is that true of every FD based service? No, but there are knuckleheads that merely passed the test in every kind of service. As I stated a few days ago, we have a QI system in place to correct or weed out those people.

Just a few random thoughts............let the bashing begin.

[mfdffp]

One other thing: I too want to thank DustDevil for what he is doing. Whatever anyone's opinion is of why he has been to Iraq, we should all be grateful that he is there. Although we don't agree on much on this topic, I truly respect you and appreciate you for what you do.

[Arizonaffcep]

There was just a story and video on Fox News about Memphis Fire Department. City Animal Control called them to help get a cat out of a VERY tall tree. The firemonkeys charged a hose and literally blew the cat out of the tree with high pressure, falling a good forty feet or more to the pavement. Dip shitz.

They can't even rescue a cat from a tree right, and they want to go stick needles in human beings? Nigga, puhleeze! :roll:

Who likes cats anyway? :twisted:

[VentMedic]

Someone spoke of the FD's wanting EMS to get the money. I'm not sure about your area, but money is not to be made by providing EMS in a urban area here. Most of the calls go unpaid because the pt. doesn't have money, insurance, etc.

That is true of almost any medical service in the U.S.

What are your tax base ratios? How is the distribution proportioned? Is there a statewide accounting base for funding sources or is it local? Does TN have an amendment updated from its taxation statutes for allocation of funds with proposed changes? How often are the funding issues voted on by the public either locally or state?

If you review some other threads on this forum and others you will see how each of these questions affect EMS and FDs.

[sirduke]

Ok, I admit, I can't spell well at 3 am after running all night, but regardless, spellcheck missed it too.

But the gist of the matter is, every time someone brings up a subject or point in this discussion that you dislike, you attack them, and ignore or ridicule what they've pointed out, rather than address the issue.

The idea that EMS has taken over fire departments nationwide seems a bit farfetched to me, as if you notice, it is always Firefighter/EMT, not EMT/Firefighter, and Fire Rescue/EMS. But I digress.

I concede that economically, fire does have a greater effect, what with the cost of reconstruction, etc, but that wasn't the issue here. The issue was, and still is, that EMS is being shuttled to the side so that big Fire can continue to dominate. And EMS as a profession suffers from it.

Did I, anywhere in my postings, advocate taking away all your engines? No, you have to have them when they are needed. Same goes for things like scoop stretchers, Broslow bags, and all those little goodies on the ambulance, that are rarely needed, but you damn sure better have when the bottom drops out.

I doubt if anything said here will promote the needed changes.

At any rate, if you want to discuss these things, then lets do so in a sensible manner, without all the attacks.

When you throw slurs and attacks rather than facts and discussion, you make yourself look foolish. Addressing the issues is a much better way to get your point across.

[Mateo_1387]

Sure there are many, many more EMS calls than fires on any given day. Normally however, that EMS call is dealing with a single patient and a minimal or no economic impact to the patient or community.

I concede that economically, fire does have a greater effect, what with the cost of reconstruction, etc...

Does anyone here think that without proper medical care, that the household provider's health will impact the economic status within a family?

I would think that far more people rely on good medical care than they do good fire service.

[mfdffp]

What are your tax base ratios? How is the distribution proportioned? Is there a statewide accounting base for funding sources or is it local? Does TN have an amendment updated from its taxation statutes for allocation of funds with proposed changes? How often are the funding issues voted on by the public either locally or state?

If you review some other threads on this forum and others you will see how each of these questions affect EMS and FDs.

I have to say that I can't answer any of those questions. Barry may be able to jump in with some specifics on this. I would look it up, but I really don't want to disturb the dalmation sleeping on my lap while I am kicked back here in the recliner with the other firemonkeys.

I realize that the above references did not come from you, but I would be willing to bet that they are what got Kramer fired up. As you said, I have tried to keep this discussion rational and on topic by presenting facts, but I must admit also that those comments are getting old.

I will let you know if I can find out the answer to those questions.

[VentMedic]

Normally however, that EMS call is dealing with a single patient and a minimal or no economic impact to the patient or community. A single fire has the potential to kill you, destroy your home, and progress through your entire neighborhood if left unchecked.

I already figured out that medical journals were not part of your reading material but what about just watching the news or picking up a newspaper? I've even seen articles about the economic impact of Emergency Services and healthcare in the Firehouse mags. Yes, it affects FDs that provide these services in a big way which is why one wonders why they would even get involved if it wasn't for the tax base funding structure and unit justification issues.

Do you even understand why this is so debated in the political arenas? What about the upcoming Presidential election? Didn't you notice healthcare issues being debated? Have you not noticed news articles about our ERs across the country? Hospitals?

When you become part of EMS you become part of a SYSTEM. You can no longer just identify yourself as a FF doing some skills. You are now part of a working system with other facilities and professionals. Each time you down play the role of EMS, you provide argument that maybe the FD's participation in EMS is not doing justice to the SYSTEM that is trying to provide a broader approach to the healthcare crisis.