ERDoc Posted November 9, 2008 Posted November 9, 2008 Are you saying ERDocs troll poster needs to be placed on this topic? Your probably right. Consider it done.
MemphisE34a Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Does that mean I am not going to make the EMTcity christmas card list?
Dustdevil Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 I make more as an EMT-I than any fire fighter within 300 miles, maybe more. I have a private bedroom. I have cable tv in the bedroom and in the common room. I have internet. Ah... but can you watch pr0nz on them?
spenac Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 Ah... but can you watch pr0nz on them? Hmm lets see our Professional policy manual says no as we are not ff's.
Dustdevil Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 What kind of service do you think would be the absolute best? Private, government based? What kind do you work for? Well, let me ask you this... if you are truly sick, which ER would you rather stumble into, the county hospital, or the ritzy private hospital? How many people do you think would choose the county hospital? Why do you think that is? After all, if government is the end all-end all of healthcare, why does everyone want to go to the private hospital? If privately administered healthcare is innately inferior, then how are they able to provide such an attractive and highly rated healthcare provision model? You see... private EMS does not fail just because it is not run by the government. The government fails at everything they do, except for one thing: providing jobs to the otherwise unemployable. And if you thought the government was doing such an excellent job of even that, you wouldn't need a union, would you? See, even you -- by your own admission -- have to fight for good salaries and working conditions. So don't do the typical firemonkey smugness thing by trying to assert that there is some inherent superiority to fire or government provision of EMS. There isn't. Your salary and your union contracts are no reflection whatsoever on the quality of the EMS delivered by your department. The fact that you have to coerce people to even go to the minimum requirement of training to do the job, that they didn't want to do in the first place, is proof positive of that. There is more to establishing a profession than salary. The quality of the product you are delivering should be your first and foremost concern. In the fire service, this is simply not EVER the case. Consequently, they only thing they have succeeded in doing for EMS is holding it back in the 1970s, both medically and professionally. You see, EMS is not a profession to you. It's just a side job. It's a way to make rookies pay their dues. It's a way to pad your numbers to justify your jobs and salaries. If you could get rid of EMS tomorrow, and not lose any of your money or benefits, there is not one firefighter in your department that wouldn't celebrate that. That is selfish. That is you operating on the very selfish, profit oriented motives that the fire service often accuses private industry of operating on. So really, there is not a single bit of difference between the motivations of the fire service and private ambulance. That levels the playing field philosophically speaking. Our next, and most important concern to be considered is who can provide the best quality of service. Clearly, there are multiple factors in favour of private industry. It goes back to the hospital analogy. Why is it that the private hospitals consistently provide better quality, more attractive service than the county and VA hospitals run by the government? Why is it that the government contracts out so much healthcare in this country? For those very same reasons, private industry is best suited to provide EMS healthcare. And yes, EMS is healthcare, not public safety. And if it were up to me, we'd take the sirens off the ambulances to make the point.
Dustdevil Posted November 10, 2008 Posted November 10, 2008 I'm honestly not going with the troll label on this one, guys. I think Memphis is absolutely sincere. I think he honestly believes all of this, and honestly doesn't understand why we do not. I can understand it, even if I don't particularly respect it. This is simply the culture of Kool-Aid that is fostered by the fire service. "Rah Rah! Everyone loves us, so we must be awesome! Go us!" Consequently, they cannot imagine that anyone could possibly do anything as well as they can, much less better. It is not a thought process that they are usually even capable of. And it is unfortunate. You're not a stupid guy, Memphis. No doubt about that. You have shown yourself to be a good communicator with good intellect. Your pride just won't let you consider the truth, even when it is laid out in front of you. And that's really a shame.
spenac Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Hey don't forget to go to the 2 sites on page 1 and voice your concerns. Of course they will probably get deleted there like mine did. I was even nice and polite but because I expressed an anti- Fire message mine were deleted. In fact here they are to make it easier: http://www.emsresponder.com/article/articl...p;siteSection=1 http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/...ass-in-session/
MontvilleFire39 Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 Wow, I just stumbled upon this old thread while searching for something else. First and foremost, I am embarassed. Both sides in this argument are making claims to be in support of inreasing the professionalism in what they percieve as the best EMS delivery model. Trading insults and jeers back and forth is certainly not that. There are many methods of delivering pre hospital medical care. Different budgets, political climates, tax revenues, geographical constraints, demographic considerations, personel avaliability, and many other factor play into to determining what is the "best" method of delivery. Additional as a provider your financial needs, family constraints, professional desires, and personal prefference determine the type of system you fit into. I personally work for the Memphis Fire Department. I relocated hear about a year and a half ago. I previously worked out of state for a private ambulance service providing 911, interfacility, corpse removal, scheduled "renal roundup" service, and critical care transfers. To me, the private service as a whole is pretty dismal. I made a whopping $10.20 per hour, worked in equipment that would make Sanford and Son cringe, and was treated like crap. I was forced to work with coworkers who either A. wanted out so bad that they were miserable or B. were stuck there due to laziness, DUI's, credit scores in the single digits, or morbid obesity. That being said, not all private services are that poor. I am a paramedic, and truly enjoy being one. I became one to be one, not to assist with fire based employment. On top of being a paramedic I also really enjoy being a firefighter. To be honest it would be hard or me to choose; fire would probably get the edge simply from a career longevity standpoint. Thankfully I work for a system that allows me to work both disciplines to their fullest. I am assigned to one of the busisest ambulances and busiest truck companies in the city. I regularly get to fight fire and provide medical care at the ALS level. As a fringe benefit I am afforded IAFF representation and the assosciated liveable salary, good benefits, and an actual retirement. While there are some third services out there that provide this, I feel as a whole fire based trumps third service / private in terms of compensation and benefits. Although I will be scorned by many, I believe this is a cause of much of the discontent between third service and fire based. My (limited) experience as a paramedic / firefighter in Memphis has been nothing short of positive. We benefit from an experienced EMS command and field staff. At the daily operations level, their are 5 EMS lieutenants and 1 EMS battalion chief. They are responsible for narcotics restock, field replacement of medical equipment, "light" QA/QI on all run tickets, protocol compliance, serve as a resource for field paramedics, and act as a liason between field providers and hospital staff. Operationaly, they respond to working structure fires in a medical operations role, MCI's, multi-party MVA's, and any call with 3 or more responding ambulances. Theese lieutenant also give paramedics a dog in te fight IMO. This helps address the potential problem of having a supervisor who has a lessor medical certifiction. A paramedic directly reports to the firefighting lieutenant at his company, but is also supervised by an EMS lieutenant. Theoretically, EMS only issues should be handled by theese folks. People here are quick to bash Memphis without any firsthand knowledge. MFD has a host of quality paramedics. Of course as everyone else we have our bad apples. The system was set before my arrival and is firmly established. The basic structure is not going to change. However, administartion has commited to system wide improvment in every aspect. Their is a concerted effort to foster a culture of quality medical care. Our medical director is very involved. We operaste under fairly liberal protocols. They are nothing fancy but much of that is dictaated by our geography. Bottom line, MFD is providing service in a challenging environment with an emphasis on ever increasing quality. As far as Memphis running their own paramedic school goes, I had and still have some doubts. That being said, as time goes on and I get more exposure to the students in the program, Many of my concerns have been lessened. Thetraining center staff are mking a commendable effort to ensure a well rounded and real world applicable education is provided. I have had a few EMT-IV and a few paramedic student ride with me and to be honest I was impressed. This could be coincidence it could not, time will tell. None of theese people were FORCED to become paramedics. It was a requirement from the time they applied, which they voluntarily did. Unfortunately there will be some who are only doing this to be firemen which is ashame. They will be unhappy and their patient care will be adequate at best. From my personal observation this is not the majority. I could be wrong, we will see. I don't agree with everything the fire department does. I don't personally believe that we need to increase the number of paramedics to the levels planned. I don't agree with some of the dispatch procedures. I don't agree with all of the policies and procedures handed down from administration. But as a whole it is pretty good and getting better. Sometimes good enough is good enough. I have to many other interests in life that to fight the good fight working for a private or third service because it is "superior" with it's low pay, poor benefits, and no retirement. My first commitment is to my wife and kids whcih heavily influences my employment choices. If it ruffles a few feathers along the way the so be it. My family is fed, clothed, and sheltered in a pretty decent manor becuase of my job with Memphis Fire Department which is a big deal given the current economic climate. If you are so truely concerned with the inner-workings of the Memphis Fire Department, get your information from an official source not hear say. Got a question, contact me, contact Lt. Kramer, contact the Director if you so choose. I am sure they would be more than happy to provide you with a factual answer to your question. Lets be honest, there will never be one model for EMS. Accept it, move on, and attempt to foster positive relationships between different services and providers not online pissing matches and spewings of complete rumor with no basis rooted in fact. Ben Bindokas Firefighter / Paramedic Memphis Fire Department Truck 3 / Unit 3 C Shift benbindokas52@yahoo.com
spenac Posted March 12, 2009 Posted March 12, 2009 LOL. You miss the whole point of being forced to be a fire fighter. If I who have no desire to be a firefighter want to work EMS there I am forced to become a firefighter. If someone wants to be a firefighter but hates medicine they are forced to learn medicine in order to get the fire fighter job. This leads to people being there that have no desire to be doing which ads risk to patients and in case of fire the other fire fighters. These are two very distinctly different professions.
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