Signing Intoxicated students

[iamyourgod]

i did and i wasnt beeing smart -- i was sincere --- in every call you have to ask yourself if i had to go to court because this pt died, can i defend my position --- it doesnt matter what the call situation is. The prosecuters will call other EMS and medical professionals to testify as to whether or not what you did was right or wrong, and whether or not others in the same situation would do the same thing.

[Just Plain Ruff]

i did and i wasnt beeing smart -- i was sincere --- in every call you have to ask yourself if i had to go to court because this pt died, can i defend my position --- it doesnt matter what the call situation is. The prosecuters will call other EMS and medical professionals to testify as to whether or not what you did was right or wrong, and whether or not others in the same situation would do the same thing.

you didn't answer her questions, she has at least 8-10 questions in her long post that you did not answer. Why do you demand answers from us yet refuse to answer questions from us?

Are you so afraid of being found out that you may be wrong or is there some other agenda going on here.

I suspect you have ulterior motives by posting on this site.

[iamyourgod]

OK, you seem to be going in circles, as the blind often do --- what specific question is it that you want me to answer ?

[Eydawn]

1. They are altered. But they are AAOX4. How do we define altered? Is their signature invalid because they're altered from being tired?

2. I have no idea what their BA level might be. Far as I know, they could have had three glasses of wine 7 hours ago and still have alcohol in their system... does that mean I make my judgment on their capability to refuse based on what I see, or on the hypothetical number I can't test for?

3. The friend I'm releasing them to is probably also tired. WTF? If the friend is competent then what does it matter? As long as the friend is also AAOX4 then why should their being tired be an issue?

4. You have no idea what other drugs this patient may have taken. Could be they've had 6 caffiene uppers and are just coming off of that. They could be taking vicodin for back pain. They could have taken a hit of cocaine and that's why they've been awake for so long. Since patients lie and never tell us exactly what they've taken, should we assume that every patient is on drugs? Tired patients must be on drugs, because they're tired. Drunk patients must have taken other drugs because they're drunk.

5. If the patient is a MINOR, read legal minor rather than underage drinker (who can be a legal adult but not old enough to drink alcohol) then there is no issue- you transport regardless. Anyone who turfs someone who is under 18 is an IDIOT. That shouldn't even factor into this discussion, because that's not what was originally being discussed.

Alright... so... who's with me here. Does being tired also mean automatically that you're incompetent? No? Seem far-fetched? Then how does ingestion of any amount of alcohol, no matter how minute, automatically mean that you're incompetent?

THOSE questions, perhaps? They weren't rhetorical.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Just Plain Ruff]

OK, you seem to be going in circles, as the blind often do --- what specific question is it that you want me to answer ?

well if you re-read Eydawns post even you (unless you are blind) can see the question marks. She asked some valid questions which you seem to have missed.

[CBEMT]

There is a clause in the protocols that says ultimately, it's up to the medic who is providing care. I have seen it go either way. I can see the point on both sides of the argument. Then again, I've also had the patient who has just done some meth, A&O x4, talking coherently and carrying on a good conversation. I got him to refuse...and he promptly ran across the street and got tagged by a car in the process. My wrist got slapped because I let him refuse. It's the unpredictability of the drugs and patient that carry the concern, and the rather rapid "shift" they can have between rational and irrational.

See, that's where our policy stops. If they're alert, oriented, coherent, can walk and stand steadily, are in a safe environment, etc, I can sign them off. If they any other drugs of abuse onboard, or if I have reason to suspect same, they go. Same goes for prescription medications with warnings against alcohol use.

[reaper]

i did and i wasnt beeing smart -- i was sincere --- in every call you have to ask yourself if i had to go to court because this pt died, can i defend my position --- it doesnt matter what the call situation is. The prosecuters will call other EMS and medical professionals to testify as to whether or not what you did was right or wrong, and whether or not others in the same situation would do the same thing.

I have a feeling this person was sued for being an incompetent medic! All their post keep referring to be able to defend your actions in court.

I guess I must be doing something right. I have never been sued or hauled to court, in nearly 20 years. So yes, I am confident in my ability to refuse a pt. I feel this way because I know how to do a proper assessment and use my education to make a qualified decision!

Maybe you need to go back and get a proper education. Then you will feel confident in working in a real EMS system and not be a protocol monkey!

[Richard B the EMT]

Being in court is not restricted to being sued yourself. One time I went to court, it was as witness in an attempted murder case (woman must be insane, she didn't press charges against her husband, who shot her and left her to die), and again as witness for a case where my patient sued the property owners for not clearing ice and snow off the sidewalk where he had slipped.

[spenac]

I have a feeling this person was sued for being an incompetent medic! All their post keep referring to be able to defend your actions in court.

I guess I must be doing something right. I have never been sued or hauled to court, in nearly 20 years. So yes, I am confident in my ability to refuse a pt. I feel this way because I know how to do a proper assessment and use my education to make a qualified decision!

Maybe you need to go back and get a proper education. Then you will feel confident in working in a real EMS system and not be a protocol monkey!

Reaper are you the idiot that got banned? I mean you 20+ idiot 20+ years service, he calls himself god you call yourself god in your occupation. HMMMM inquiring minds want to know. :twisted: :twisted:

[reaper]

Sorry, my brains to full to come up with crap like that! :shock: :twisted: