Mayor: ‘Now is not the time’ for fire-based EMS

[p3medic]

I don't see how Taunton can expect to make money by giving EMS to the fire department. The town will end up paying to hire more ff/medics, will pay them extra to be paramedics, will take on the liability of these medics should poor care lead to a bad outcome, will pay them for their con-ed, will pay for a medical director, will pay for the fuel, medication and ALS equipment. I think the amount of money they would collect with billing would fall far short of the money needed to fund the system. And next contract they will come back and say our call volume is increasing, we need more ff/medics, new apparatus, more money, etc...Thats my prediction. I've seen it all over Mass, no reason to think Taunton would be any different.

[p3medic]

To be fair, the town I grew up in had fire based EMS (it sucked, but that's a county wide problem) and it's own SWAT team. Of course they contracted with the next town over for police helicopter service.

Just because a town can convince the powers that be they need a SWAT team, or ALS doesn't make it so. There is a HUGE difference between training and doing. I think it the case of small towns, a regional approach to ALS (and SWAT) is the way to go. The providers would be responding to a greater volume of calls and gaining real life experience as opposed to sitting around the firehouse hoping for something to catch fire, and occasionally going out on an EMS run. The problem as I see it is an overwhelming number of providers with minimal experience, as opposed to using fewer providers in a regional approach. They used to use regional systems around here, and they provided a high level of care with experienced providers, but since the explosion of ALS fire departments they have fallen by the wayside.

[JPINFV]

Well, to be compeletly fair, Fountain Valley is only 50k people. Huntington Beach is 100k+, Costa Mesa is 100k+, and so on till you reach 3 mil people in the county. :twisted:

[pguy280]

Where in mass have the reverted back from a fire based ems system to either a private or hospital base system in the last 5-10 years. Not sure if that has happen myself. I see your points tho. Meds are 1for 1 in this region so only start up cost. Medical director hospital provides as part of region agreement. Liability mass laws govern can't sue the town. ALS equip yes start up an maintenance.. Bargaining is just that bargaining nothing is a given FD can ask for the world does not mean there GOING TO get it(con ed payment extra medic pay ). Thats for the towns people to decide. Vehicles yes have cost wear and tear and replacement. Think the call volume is there for experience maybe not next door to taunton but there yes. I worked at Norwood Hosp for 13 years on a regional non transport truck and bet you will find that most of the medics who worked those trucks now are FF/Medics.Hired for there experience .I would hope and think the that Taunton FD prsented there case to the city council with facts and figures showing the % of money and the dates that it would take effect should they take over EMS. As far as sitting in the station waiting I would say its better than being posted at some corner waiting for a call.

Oh an there is a regional swat team its called metrostar I believe and there is the bristol county sheriffs team. There is also a new regional dive team that is starting through the FD's as well. Norfolk county has started there new regional radio system. I hope this regional thing keeps going an includes the FD's regionalizing all services.

Ps P3 can you look into your crystal ball and predict if I am gonna win the lottery soon. JK

Be safe out there

BrendaN

[DwayneEMTP]

Pguy, you asked P3 for "facts", which you claim to have provided.

Pulling a bunch of figures out of your rear and swearing to them doesn't make them facts. You go on in your further posts to claim that experience is not an issue in this population as all of those medics were "Hired for there experience." According to you. If you want facts then make some attempt to back up all of the nonsense that you currently claim to be facts. Until then you have no right to ask.

And accepting that a person can quote local figures, trends, and represent the thinking of the local populace, yet is unable to spell or use grammar correctly is simply asking to much.

Dwayne

[pguy280]

First I apologize for my grammar if it does not meet your expectations. Second the figures I pulled from my rear are the facts that I currently have for the system that I work in. Third I said that those medics that were hired was so that the new fire based als has some experienced medics that was my point. I was not referring to the city of Taunton. My referral was to the Hospital systems here in mass that have been disband. I also believe that in the city of Taunton there is the call volume so that a new provider could gain that experience and be able to keep up with there skills.

Facts

call volume average reimbursement total

325 ALS calls a year 40% 500.00 162,500.0

975 BLS calls a year 60% 320.00 312,000.0

These figures are based on population of 22k. You would have to by multiplying 1.5% (approx)to get to the dollar amount to match with there population.

This total amount figure is $711,750.00 for Taunton. This is where the 700k figure comes from that the FD came up with.

These are the facts that I am working off of. If I am wrong just let me know.

I also do not intend to offend anyone with my grammar or my shinney rear.

I also know there are some that believe fire based EMS is wrong and I accept that. I thought this was a place to share thoughts.

thats my rant

Be SAFE out there.

Brendan

[Dustdevil]

Regardless of the validity or fallacy of your figures, I fail to see the relevance. The grammar is not a problem because it fails to impress. Your grammar is a problem because it fails to make sense. I can't even figure out what you are trying to say. Can you try again?

[pguy280]

MY point is that I can see where they the Taunton Fire Dept think they can provide EMS to the city. Thanks Dust for getting back on track.

[defib_wizard]

I'll make it simple for you. Crosstraining does not work; How about the plumbers union taking over the fire service. They are experts in moving water from one place to another and they have to know building codes! I know the argument doesn't make sense to you, well your argument doesn't make sense to me.

If the fire dept really cared about medical care for its citizens it wouldn't do this. The only reason the fire service wants ems is to increase its budget and justify its existence. The fire depts have done such a good job of demanding better building codes that fires do not occur that often as they used too.

I have a better idea; Lets use the taxpayer dollars the fire dept wants and staff ambulances with city paid paramedics. Instead of buying extra fire trucks you will save money to buy more ambulances. You will also save money in not responding a firetruck to every call.

If you want to save the citizens money how about crosstraining in helping the city maintain the roads. Filling in potholes will help keep you in shape plus your doing a public service.

Long story short if your area uses a private ambulance. Then unless you use it you never have to pay for it. Why should I pay more taxes for other peoples ambulance ride. I already pay enough for medicare and other taxes.

[Lone Star]

Never never trust a government official to give you the true cost up front. Anyone who trusts them is as dumb as a box of rocks and I have a bridge to nowhere I wanna sell em.

Ruffles,

I see by your offer to sell a 'bridge to nowhere', you've been to Ketchican, AK! #-o :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/165478?GT1=43001