AMR has hidden camera in EMS Union's negotiation room

[Don1977]

WOW AMR did something wrong again..who would have thought that?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[UMSTUDENT]

Actually, that depends on what state you are talking about. It varies. But generally, it is held that a person in a common, public area has no expectation of privacy from monitoring. Sometimes, even dressing rooms, bunk rooms, and bath rooms have been upheld as fair game by the courts.

Nobody has claimed that the room was bugged for sound, only that a camera was found. And nobody has claimed that there were no signs posted at the entrance of the building warning that the premises were under video surveillance.

Again, union organises utilising company premises for their organizational meetings is just a sign of how stupid they are to begin with. These certainly aren't the rocket surgeons I'd be trusting with my job.

I was under the impression that this was United States Code...

Wait, found it:

Electronics Communication Privacy Act of 1986. This statute generally applies to criminal "wiretaps," but has been interpreted to expand the rights of employees within their place of work.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/securi...icleID=26806697

ECPA, as interpreted through case law, generally only allows silent video recording. This is of course if the employee is notified. However, as the article above states, many states now consider video with or without sound as a criminal violation. Also, there generally has to be a "reasonable business justification," of which spying on a union probably doesn't cut it.

The only reason I know this is because we spent considerable time on this during my management education. Most employers severely overlook the number of federal and state statutes that govern how they treat their employees. An industrious employee with even a hint of motivation can severely screw you, if you don't know your stuff.

[RaceMedic]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Corp. EMS !!! Get used to it, even if they are found in the wrong, AMR is the Largest private Ambulance company in the United States. They will not change their business practices nor will they change how they treat the steady stream of paramedics they herd through the NCTI "BE A MEDIC" paramedic programs. Why should they. Easier to replace a stubborn experienced medic that has formed an opinion with a fresh, wet behind the ears hungry parapup out of their own school.

[Doug]

I am actually familiar with the building that this happened with. While some of you may be saying "Oh, well, it's just a bunch of lazy union pukes," I'd like you to keep in mind that these same rooms are used for negotiating NH, SNF, Hosp., ADA and Medicaid reimbursements....

This is exactly the kind of dirty tricks I'd expect from Dave Banelli and his thugs. While generally I would agree that one cannot expect complete privacy normally in corporate offices, I believe you need to be notified that video surveillance is being used, and before any contract talks with AMR both sides sign a confidentiality agreement that says that during negotiations the right to privacy will be honored, in fact the one we signed specifically said the use of video/audio recordings were off limits.

[Medic Kevorkian]

Wow! A large corporation puts security surveillance cameras in the common areas of its corporate facilities. Imagine that! Who'd a thunk it?

This is just NEMSA posturing and trying to make a case where there is none. No law was broken here. In fact, I'm betting someone in the union knew all along that there has been a camera in there for years, and asked to use the room for a meeting just so they could play the victim over the camera.

You don't like the space that the company is allowing you to utilise for free? Go find your own place, dickwad. And jack up your union dues to do so too.

WOW! Please know the facts before you speak... Otherwise you look like a moron...

Fact #1:

AMR refused to negotiate outside the confines of it's office

Fact #2:

AMR Chose the room without informing the union of the presence of a device.

Fact #3:

The room was checked 6 weeks prior, and 2 days prior to the discovery of the device, and there was no device present in the shell of the smoke detector it was found in

Fact #4:

The room that the device was found is LOCKED under normal circumstances and only used for training purposes.

Fact #5:

It is against CT. State Statutes 31-48b:

(d) No employer or his agent or representative and no employee or his agent or representative shall intentionally overhear or record a conversation or discussion pertaining to employment contract negotiations between the two parties, by means of any instrument, device or equipment, unless such party has the consent of all parties to such conversation or discussion.

Fact #6:

NLRB Elections were held in this room, and I'm sure it's against NLRB regulations to have a device such as that present without their knowledge.

This being the case... Don't make a judgement just because the union is NEMSA...

[Dustdevil]

Don't make a judgement just because the union is NEMSA...

I didn't. I made the judgement because it was a union, period. They're all the same to me.

So what exactly is the harm in the negotiations being taped anyhow? It's not like one side secretly taped the secret meeting of the other. It was bilateral negotiations. So, what is the union afraid of? Are they afraid that their membership would be upset if they found out how their "leaders" were really representing them? I bet they are. And they should be.

[Medic Kevorkian]

So what exactly is the harm in the negotiations being taped anyhow? It's not like one side secretly taped the secret meeting of the other. It was bilateral negotiations. So, what is the union afraid of? Are they afraid that their membership would be upset if they found out how their "leaders" were really representing them? I bet they are. And they should be.

Ahhh... See that's where you are WRONG... One side DID secretly view and listen the other WITHOUT disclosure... Our negotiations are being run by 6 well trusted members of our own workplace with the SUPPORT of the union leadership and attorney, and not just at the whim of union leadership. Again, before you make generalizations, know the facts.

[spenac]

Unions=bad

AMR=bad

Do two bads make a good?

[Dustdevil]

Ahhh... See that's where you are WRONG... One side DID secretly view and listen the other WITHOUT disclosure... Our negotiations are being run by 6 well trusted members of our own workplace with the SUPPORT of the union leadership and attorney, and not just at the whim of union leadership. Again, before you make generalizations, know the facts.

Ummm... you're not getting it. :roll:

BOTH sides were in the room. So, if both sides were in the room, neither side gets an advantage over the other. Both sides hear everything both sides are saying. There is nothing "secret" supposedly going on in the room. Even if it is being recorded, no one benefits from that.

So then, who would the union be afraid of hearing these proceedings, if it is not the other side? The answer is obvious. They are scared of their own rank and file finding out how the negotiations are going! There is no other possible answer. So the question stands; what are the union reps scared of?

[Medic Kevorkian]

Ummm... you're not getting it. :roll:

BOTH sides were in the room.

I think YOU are the one who doesn't get it... If I need to explain in small words, I will... BOTH PARTIES WERE NOT IN THE ROOM. Management left the room to caucus (discuss) over the latest set of negotiating points. If you have never been in a negotiating session, it goes like this... One side presents their proposal, the other side counter offers, the first side counters etc. until an agreement is reached... When they are caucusing, they are discussing private strategy that they will use in the face to face meetings. To have that private caucus being watched/listened to is against the law (CT. Statute 31-48b(d))