Remove 12 Lead from ambulances ???????

[Ridryder 911]

Hey all I know Mr. Ambodriver is if that BS degree helps you operate a ambo then more power to you bro. However let me break it down to you, you see we already have enough propeller heads in this industry that think that getting a masters and being a wizard is so much more important then street smarts. How about you leave the realistic life saving to the professionals (firefighter/paramedics) that don't worry about being able to recite a medical manual word for word. Reality is the key to sucess in the 21st century

Ohhh please! Okay, here we go let's make it more dumber than it already is. Geezzz street smarts, (excuse for not knowing medicine). Like it takes any brain matter to obtain street smarts. Experience will take care of that. Being dumb about medicine never resolves itself with street smarts, one will remain stupid. Remember, we attempt to really hire above the neck in EMS.

Sorry, you just proved the point and problem with EMS today. Let's uh... duh...be street smart. Yeah, that saves lives! Wow! Typical response from someone that does not understand medicine. Oh yeah, that right.. It's called E. M. S. Emergency Medical Services, not rescue, fire suppression, rather it is medical. So yeah, leave the medical for medical professionals.

If you do not see the problems that already in the system due to the lack of education (not training alike in Fire Services) where we could use texts written above junior high level, then you must be part of the problem. Field experience is essential and one can gain "street smarts" from just working in it for a while. Picking up tricks of the trade, and sounded short cuts. but just remember one that take too many or wrong will be judged and be expert witness by us (book smart) when testifying against those so called "street smart" medics.

R/r 911

[ERDoc]

Hey all I know Mr. Ambodriver is if that BS degree helps you operate a ambo then more power to you bro. However let me break it down to you, you see we already have enough propeller heads in this industry that think that getting a masters and being a wizard is so much more important then street smarts. How about you leave the realistic life saving to the professionals (firefighter/paramedics) that don't worry about being able to recite a medical manual word for word. Reality is the key to sucess in the 21st century

Your post is just another fine example of why the FD should have their control over EMS taken away from them. You are right on one point, reality is the key to success in the 21st century. The reality is that we need more educated providers, not trained firemonkeys who would rather be firefighting. Until the EMS community realizes this and steps up to the plate, EMS will never receive the respect of being a true profession in the medical community. Street smarts (or as those of us overly educated would call it, experience) means nothing without education. That is the biggest problem in EMS. Many know what to do, few know why you do it and even fewer understand how we got to the point of knowing what to do (yes, that means research, which your typical fire academy medic class does not teach). Experience without education means you keep doing things wrong without knowing you are doing them wrong.

I leave you with one final thought to ponder that I think really applies to EMS:

The aim of education should be to teach us rather how to think, than what to think - rather to improve our minds, so as to enable us to think for ourselves, than to load the memory with thoughts of other men. ~Bill Beattie

[spenac]

Hey all I know Mr. Ambodriver is if that BS degree helps you operate a ambo then more power to you bro. However let me break it down to you, you see we already have enough propeller heads in this industry that think that getting a masters and being a wizard is so much more important then street smarts. How about you leave the realistic life saving to the professionals (firefighter/paramedics) that don't worry about being able to recite a medical manual word for word. Reality is the key to sucess in the 21st century

Man I hope that is just a poor attempt at sarcasm. If not please immediately remove yourself from my profession. We should be pre Hospital Medical Professionals not taxi drivers.

[VentMedic]

Man I hope that is just a poor attempt at sarcasm. If not please immediately remove yourself from my profession. We should be pre Hospital Medical Professionals not taxi drivers.

I hope he also realizes he has just insulted every FF/Paramedic who do try their best to maintain professionalism to their Paramedic patch as well as their FF cert. Not all FireMedics are uneducated but ff4l93 has made it a point to present them as such. There are several good FDs where his attitude would not be welcome either.

[jbanagas]

your right ff4193 firemedics are truly trained in all diversities, when it comes to fire suppression, rescue and ems, as far as the west coast is comcerned ems will be part of the fire service no matter what the rest of the country does, and thats just fine with me, I enjoy working 10 days out of the month and making over 100k a year, with all my other perks and benifits

[WolfmanHarris]

Hey all I know Mr. Ambodriver is if that BS degree helps you operate a ambo then more power to you bro. However let me break it down to you, you see we already have enough propeller heads in this industry that think that getting a masters and being a wizard is so much more important then street smarts. How about you leave the realistic life saving to the professionals (firefighter/paramedics) that don't worry about being able to recite a medical manual word for word. Reality is the key to sucess in the 21st century

Please explain for me how limited education and disinterest = professional. That doesn't seem to fit with professionalism by any definition I'm aware of. Or on the flip side, how does increased education and a committment to furthering it preclude someone from being a professional? Also I'm not sure how Firefighter/Paramedic is relevant in this case. While someone might be both, it's only their role as a Paramedic which is being considered at this point. Please if you don't know the meaning of the word, don't use it, it only undermines the rest of your position.

Further, could you please explain what you mean by lifesaving and how that occurs? With a 4% North American average survival rate for sudden cardiac arrest I'd caution against defining your work by failure. Now if by saving lives you mean running urgent 911 calls I'd suggest that you remember you're talking to those who work EMS. We don't need the PR crap about saving lives. We know just what our calls are and what impact we generally have in terms of definitive lifesaving care. If you're not aware of this I'd like to direct your attention to the OPALS study or the ROC study. These provide a healthy dose of reality for EMS.

Finally, not to discount street smarts, but I don't understand how knowing a neighbourhood, community, the dynamic of an area or any of the standard street smarts will be more important than understanding why a patient might react to a treatment and be able to forsee these complications. I'm not discounting street smarts, I'm just not clear on why you would elevate that above clinical understanding.

And jabangas, once again I renew my request for you to lay out your view on EMS in entirety so that we can reach an understanding of where you're coming from. These continuous unsupported jabs and your consistent refusal to address replies make your input next to worthless. As a result, your input doesn't help the person you're agreeing with, it harms them because they get lumped in with ignorance, arguments from anecdotes and all the other unsupported crap that punctuate your posts.

[ff4l93]

Your post is just another fine example of why the FD should have their control over EMS taken away from them. You are right on one point, reality is the key to success in the 21st century. The reality is that we need more educated providers, not trained firemonkeys who would rather be firefighting. Until the EMS community realizes this and steps up to the plate, EMS will never receive the respect of being a true profession in the medical community. Street smarts (or as those of us overly educated would call it, experience) means nothing without education. That is the biggest problem in EMS. Many know what to do, few know why you do it and even fewer understand how we got to the point of knowing what to do (yes, that means research, which your typical fire academy medic class does not teach). Experience without education means you keep doing things wrong without knowing you are doing them wrong.

I leave you with one final thought to ponder that I think really applies to EMS:

The aim of education should be to teach us rather how to think, than what to think - rather to improve our minds, so as to enable us to think for ourselves, than to load the memory with thoughts of other men. ~Bill Beattie

Well I hate to break it to you but there is a reason why Firefighter Pararmedics are sent to someones emergency when they dial 911, and not a Rickey Rescue single role. Thats because we are trained to handle all types of emergencies and incidents we don't just worry about one thing. The tax payers want someone that is experianced in handleing all types of emergency incidents, people that deal with it on a day to day basis, firefighters are not fire monkeys, as you say, they are trained in all aspects of emergencies. We don't just pick and choose what type of emergencie were going to act on, we handle the situation what ever the challenges without having to call people outside of our profession. When private medics get on scene and can't handle the situation they call the firemen in to take care of business. A true example of why there is little single role 911 medics on the west coast. The public and powers to be have come to the conclusion that paying for one firefighter paramedic that can do 20 different jobs, is much more benificial to a community then to pay a box jockey to say, "oh this isn't just a medical aid i need a enigne company to come rescue this person.

[ff4l93]

Man I hope that is just a poor attempt at sarcasm. If not please immediately remove yourself from my profession. We should be pre Hospital Medical Professionals not taxi drivers.

Dude the bottomline is that you your self just addmitted that you are a taxi driver. See working on an engine company as a FREFIGHTER PARAMEDIC you don't have to worry about being a taxi cab driver. If you run into that type of call and it is a BLS Frequent Flyer then you BLS the call to a private ambo. company like yourself. Just relize that if you don't like doing the job, then change stop complaning you can't change the standard of industry, thats just the typicle private box job now a days, go to a firefighter academy and get on the job and join the best job in the world. Work ten days a month, make plenty of dough to live comfortably anywhere in the US, oh ya and you get to actually not have to be a taxi cab driver and do IFT's all day.

[reaper]

Because on the East Coast we do it all, without the need of 10 engines showing up!

[spenac]

Dude the bottomline is that you your self just addmitted that you are a taxi driver. See working on an engine company as a FREFIGHTER PARAMEDIC you don't have to worry about being a taxi cab driver. If you run into that type of call and it is a BLS Frequent Flyer then you BLS the call to a private ambo. company like yourself. Just relize that if you don't like doing the job, then change stop complaning you can't change the standard of industry, thats just the typicle private box job now a days, go to a firefighter academy and get on the job and join the best job in the world. Work ten days a month, make plenty of dough to live comfortably anywhere in the US, oh ya and you get to actually not have to be a taxi cab driver and do IFT's all day.

You are not worth wasting time with. Have a nice day.

Ok I do have to say this before I wave good bye to you. I to only have to work 10 days. I only do 911's. I do not do transfers. I do not fight fires and in fact am no longer in the fire service as they choose not to put patient care first. My pay when factoring in cost of living comes out way above you California dreamers.