If you could change one thing in EMS .......................

[jbanagas]

Actually you can still take NR with the short course. All it is is a test. Nothing more.

No doubt, but at least where I live and the surrounding counties all have A.S. Paramedic degrees. I don't think there is anything shorter left in whole state, I could be wrong if anyone knows of a progrm out there.

[VentMedic]

It doesn't take that much to get a job in the mines or some industrial factories pulling in a decent wage for a 40 hour week. Even CNAs with minimal entry cert requirements in hospitals can gain a few extra skills and make more for a 40 hour week than most EMTs or even Paramedics working their 24s. They also have the opportunity to do doubles or 12 hours shift at 1.5 after 8 or 2x pay after 12 hour 7 days a week if they desire since they are in demand and still sleep in their own bed a few hours/day.

People who attended the 110 hour junior manager training program at Burger King have had their dreams of being a millionaire crushed also.

You have to remember that our profession, and yes i do call it a profession, is only some 40+ years old. It is still in its infancy. Unless you have a different definition of "profession" than I do, which is entirely possible:

That is old when compared to the other medical professions that have passed EMS in education and credentialing at a national level.

Even nursing did not start to get its professional recognition until the late 1970s when it started to eliminate the diploma schools. EMS had every opportunity at that time to establish itself before nursing. If you notice, many of us from the 1970s have our Associates in EMS which we obtained at that time when the push was on to establish this profession.

Pick any of the allied health professions and you will find they have developed into a profession at a national level over the past 20 years from being non-existent. That includes Radiology, Respiratory, Nuclear med, Radiation medicine, etc. Speech, Occupational and Physical Therapy are a minimum of a Bachelors with Masters and Doctorates preferred.

You also have to consider we don't know what to even call those in this "profession". We have over 50 different titles recognized differently in each of the 50 different states for something resembling EMT and Paramedic. Even those terms are not always used in some states. Other professions don't have this identity problem and have narrowed their licensing down to a couple different levels and a handful of specialty credentials.

It is a very sad statement that in 40 years EMS is further from establishing itself than it was in the 1970s.

I don't get the religious angle you are stating.

No California is not a 13 week cram session anymore, not since it became a registry state, I beieve we have two year progams now, but anywho, classes are not filling up as fast as the two year RN program, so there is a significant shortage of paramedics here,

While there are a few 2 year degree programs in CA, they are rarely completed since the certificate is good enough and that is what most obtain even at the community colleges. The minimum hours in California to be a Paramedic is still 1070 hours. The only difference is even the PDQ medic mills must be accredited by CAAHEP/CoAEMSP. Unfortunately their statutes had previously not defined that their clinicals must be done on a transport vehicle and many have done their rotations on an ALS engine for 24 hours at a time. Thus, 13 weeks can be obtainable. Florida also had that situation and as of this year it was emphasized that an engine is not a transport ambulance suitable for clinicals regardless of how many paramedics you can squeeze onto it.

In northern CA, the FDs may be separate from EMS and even when they are together they are separate. There is also no shortage of Paramedics but rather just a lack of appropriate allocation or use of resources.

[jbanagas]

It doesn't take that much to get a job in the mines or some industrial factories pulling in a decent wage for a 40 hour week. Even CNAs with minimal entry cert requirements in hospitals can gain a few extra skills and make more for a 40 hour week than most EMTs or even Paramedics working their 24s. They also have the opportunity to do doubles or 12 hours shift at 1.5 after 8 or 2x pay after 12 hour 7 days a week if they desire since they are in demand and still sleep in their own bed a few hours/day.

People who attended the 110 hour junior manager training program at Burger King have had their dreams of being a millionaire crushed also.

That is old when compared to the other medical professions that have passed EMS in education and credentialing at a national level.

Even nursing did not start to get its professional recognition until the late 1970s when it started to eliminate the diploma schools. EMS had every opportunity at that time to establish itself before nursing. If you notice, many of us from the 1970s have our Associates in EMS which we obtained at that time when the push was on to establish this profession.

Pick any of the allied health professions and you will find they have developed into a profession at a national level over the past 20 years from being non-existent. That includes Radiology, Respiratory, Nuclear med, Radiation medicine, etc. Speech, Occupational and Physical Therapy are a minimum of a Bachelors with Masters and Doctorates preferred.

You also have to consider we don't know what to even call those in this "profession". We have over 50 different titles recognized differently in each of the 50 different states for something resembling EMT and Paramedic. Even those terms are not always used in some states. Other professions don't have this identity problem and have narrowed their licensing down to a couple different levels and a handful of specialty credentials.

It is a very sad statement that in 40 years EMS is further from establishing itself than it was in the 1970s.

I don't get the religious angle you are stating.

While there are a few 2 year degree programs in CA, they are rarely completed since the certificate is good enough and that is what most obtain even at the community colleges. The minimum hours in California to be a Paramedic is still 1070 hours. The only difference is even the PDQ medic mills must be accredited by CAAHEP/CoAEMSP. Unfortunately their statutes had previously not defined that their clinicals must be done on a transport vehicle and many have done their rotations on an ALS engine for 24 hours at a time. Thus, 13 weeks can be obtainable. Florida also had that situation and as of this year it was emphasized that an engine is not a transport ambulance suitable for clinicals regardless of how many paramedics you can squeeze onto it.

In northern CA, the FDs may be separate from EMS and even when they are together they are separate. There is also no shortage of Paramedics but rather just a lack of appropriate allocation or use of resources.

Whatever call it what you want, but the FD's can't get enough of Paramedic at this point in time, just about every FD in and around LA county are taking applications on a ongoing basis.

[VentMedic]

Whatever call it what you want, but the FD's can't get enough of Paramedic at this point in time, just about every FD in and around LA county are taking applications on a ongoing basis.

You can't figure out why this is?

[jbanagas]

You can't figure out why this is?

I figure it's that these applicants want to make real money, have a great retirment, and be a hero.

[Dustdevil]

Bang boy here obviously skipped the math component of his education. All the numbers are here in front of him, yet he keeps adding 2 and 2 together to come up with 2. He throws out an equation, and for just a moment you think, "there! He's got it!" But then he draws a conclusion from it and it splashes into the bowl again.

He shoots.... he misses! Over and over again. :?

[VentMedic]

I figure it's that these applicants want to make real money, have a great retirment, and be a hero.

Banagas, you just stated this:

Whatever call it what you want, but the FD's can't get enough of Paramedic at this point in time, just about every FD in and around LA county are taking applications on a ongoing basis.

[Dustdevil]

Banagas, you just stated this:

Exactly what I was talking about. He gets SO close, and then just blows it every time.

It's been a long time since I've seen this much FAIL out of one poster.

[sevenball]

Everyone is talking about change needing to come from our home orginizations. Aren't we governed by the DOT? Don't they make the rules for us? Why should we be so content on changing our small orginizations? Why not push for the larger picture. Anything less seems like paint spatters on a building sized canvas to me. If I change what my orginization requires for pre requisites, what is your motivation to do the same? Do you really care what I do? I think not. You'll just take all my lazy run offs who refuse to rise up and conform to a new world of EMS. Change needs to be a requirement, not an option. Education must be forced onto providers. I cannot simply tell my medics to get one, just as I cannot tell you to get one. However, if the DOT tell us all to get one, we have no choice. Unless of course you look good in a headset and paper hat. "Would you like fries with that?"

[VentMedic]

Everyone is talking about change needing to come from our home orginizations. Aren't we governed by the DOT? Don't they make the rules for us? Why should we be so content on changing our small orginizations? Why not push for the larger picture. Anything less seems like paint spatters on a building sized canvas to me. If I change what my orginization requires for pre requisites, what is your motivation to do the same? Do you really care what I do? I think not. You'll just take all my lazy run offs who refuse to rise up and conform to a new world of EMS. Change needs to be a requirement, not an option. Education must be forced onto providers. I cannot simply tell my medics to get one, just as I cannot tell you to get one. However, if the DOT tell us all to get one, we have no choice. Unless of course you look good in a headset and paper hat. "Would you like fries with that?"

The DOT or National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)/ EMS division, is not the licensing agency.

The NREMT will be requiring Paramedics to be a graduate of an accredited school by 2013 but that is only a small step and states can still use their own exam, like Florida, to avoid this.

How do you think we ended up with over 50 different certs/licenses in the 50 states? The hours of training for Paramedic in this country for cert/licensure range anywhere from 500 hours to an Associates degree (Oregon).

Employers for other healthcare professionals started requiring higher educated applicants long before their entry level licensure changed. Some specialty and Flight programs that hire Paramedics are also striving for higher educated applicants to fill their positions.