Helicopter EMS Question for providers outside the USA

[FormerEMSLT297]

In an article dated Nov. 6, 2008

http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/colu...l_industry.html

Dr. Bryan Bledsoe, claims, among other things that "many other countries including Canada forbid (or strongly discourage) nighttime scene flights".

I am not questioning the veracity of these statements, but I am curious to know, from the actual EMS Providers what the rules are for scene flights, both day and night, and how they handle transporting critcical trauma patients from accident scenes at night..

Does it just not happen, do they go to a local ER with a helipad,,, WHAT ?????

[akroeze]

I am by no means an expert but the rotor wing aircraft here in Ontario do no scene calls at night. As in none. The risks are too great.

They will only land at designated spots (eg helipads).

[FormerEMSLT297]

So, in Canada, what are "designated helispots" ??? Are they lighted pads at the rear of Police and Fire Stations ???... Are they big wide open pads adjacent to highways, every so many miles,,, are they Hospital helipads ???....

I'm curious what the "official" helipad designation means...

Also ,, so you have a really bad wreck shooting, whatever at night,,,, and the ER is like 1 hour by ground,, do you:

A) go to to local ER and stabilize, ???? and then transport by ground, or air?

or

Go direct to the Trauma center from the scene ????

[WolfmanHarris]

No nighttime scene response means just that. They get taken to the local ER, airport, etc. Usually the local ER and are transported from there by air. In the event someone is very remote and it could be considered a SAR response, the military is called in. The bread and butter for Air Ambulance in Ontario is Critical Care Transfer from one facility to another with scene response being only a small part. I'll see if I can dig up my utilization standards later.

Here are the guidelines for interfacility transport

ORNGE

[WelshMedic]

Here in the Netherlands nightflights were forbidden by federal law. Then the organizations involved in HEMS used political lobby to get their own way (unfortunately they did this by portraying the ground providers as basically well-meaning but largely ill-equipped to deal with serious trauma, distance or enhanced speed are rarely factors in a country half the size of Kentucky). There is now 1 helicopter that is allowed to nightfly but has to follow strict guidelines. For example, the landing sites are agreed upon before hand.

WM

[rock_shoes]

Night-flights to scenes are extremely rare in BC. Very few birds or pilots are qualified to operate at night. That level of risk is very rarely worth the reward. It's no different than anything else where you have to evaluate the risk/reward ratio.

[ukcanuck]

In the UK we are not allowed to "land out" at any none reccied sites.

That limits us to lit pads wherever they happen to be.

There is talk about doing night scene jobs using NVGs and pre reccied sites to meet up with crews but most crews/pilots/flight people just don't see the point when you look at risk vs benefit. There are untold wires and stuff that ruin the crews day as we are a very populated little island.

You can afford to run several critical care support cars with what you would pay to do night heli ops and most crews are never that far from a hospital. Except maybe the scottish highlands but then they call out RAF SAR.

[evjm]

Here in Nova Scotia Lifeflight will not make night scene landings. They will only land at night-rated airports and lit helipads at the hospitals at night. Here is their site for more info.

http://gov.ns.ca/health/ehs/Air_Ambulance/scene.htm

[tniuqs]

Designated Alberta Air Ambulance Rotary is Twin engined, Twin pilots (IFR regs) night vision Googles for remote night landings, Alberta land mass is at least twice the size of texas, we have 3 flying blood clots only.

Honestly there is just no where near the number of rotary flights ... there pretty much useless with the distances, the huge majority here is fixed wing .

Proof positive that there is no such thing as the GOLDEN HOUR and no competition for the call ... thats the problem .... yall.

cheers

[iMac]

Designated Alberta Air Ambulance Rotary is Twin engined, Twin pilots (IFR regs) night vision Googles for remote night landings, Alberta land mass is at least twice the size of texas, we have 3 flying blood clots only.

Honestly there is just no where near the number of rotary flights ... there pretty much useless with the distances, the huge majority here is fixed wing .

Proof positive that there is no such thing as the GOLDEN HOUR and no competition for the call ... thats the problem .... yall.

cheers

Yes except we have 5 and an AW139