Private EMS service adds FLIR

[WestSideBorderPatrol]

Range of about 2,000 feet according to the article.

[flight-lp]

So, what other safety innovations would you recommend prior to this one?

More in depth driver training with a focus on crew resource and utilization of good decision making. If visibility is nill (i.e. less than 1/8 mile), then maybe you shouldn't be out on the road. I know it sounds horrible, but think for a moment, what happens to those critical patients that need to be transferred by air when the weather goes south. They stay put where they are at. Talk to the folks who work out in the wilderness of Alaska, they sometimes have to maintain their patient for days.

If you cannot safely operate, you increase your casualty rate threefold. Its not worth it...................

Another thought to consider..............

Pilots are required to have over 80 hours of training to just meet the minimum requirements to qualify for an instrument rating. They are then required to maintain proficiency by flying on instruments and completing several different tasks every 6 months. This is the bare minimum and I will tell you from personal experience, it fails to remotely prepare you to be a proficient IFR pilot.

When you fly on instruments, you do not have to worry about anything interfering with your path as you are tracked by ATC. O.k. so where am I going with this??????????????

If this is what is required to operate a vehicle with no traffic, animals, or obstacles in reduced visability, then how can any of you remotely justify someone who maybe has 1/4 of that time in training operating a vehicle with who knows what in front of them in the same conditions? Add to that the need to take your eyes off of the road to look at this little TV box and you have a recipe for disaster.

This is a horrible idea, in Canada, the U.S. or anywhere else. New toys are not always the answer, sometimes we need to revisit the basics........................... 8)

[Dustdevil]

This is a horrible idea, in Canada, the U.S. or anywhere else. New toys are not always the answer, sometimes we need to revisit the basics........................... 8)

Agreed. Anything that has the potential to distract the driver is a bad thing. This thing not only distracts, but gives the driver a false sense of security to drive beyond his vision.

[Arctickat]

I see, so when a driver glances down to the guages to make sure the vehicle is operating in the green that is also too dangerous? IFR rules are a replacement for VFR, but tell me a pilot who doesn't occasionally check his IFR instruments when flying VFR? What do you propose these ambulances do when they are 30 miles down the road with their patient and it's still another 30 miles to the nearest facility? Just stop were they are and wait for the fog bank or snow storm to pass? Turn around and head back home, even though, as you must be aware, the fog bank has also likely closed in behind them too?

Unlike replacing VFR flight with IFR, this system is an ENHANCEMENT to driver and passenger safety. It is an enhancement that requires no more attention paid to it than an occasional glance every few seconds. It is an enhancement that allows the driver to see beyond his visual range so that dangers are more easily recognised and avoided. Visibility at night is less than an 1/8 of a mile too, healights only shine 500 feet, shall we prohibit all ambulances from doing transports then as well and wait until daylight?

The reason that health clinics up North have to wait, sometimes for days, is not because the aircraft has to fly VFR, it's because landing an aircraft in such poor visibility while traveling approximately double the speed of a land vehicle does not give the pilot time to react if he misses the runway. An ambulance can slow down for poor weather and the worst case is that the patient arrives at the destination in three hours rather than two. If an aircraft slows down for poor visibility it falls out of the sky.

If you are so easily distracted by television screens that they pose a hazard to you, god help anyone walking near a television store when you drive past the display window.

[emtannie]

Agreed. Anything that has the potential to distract the driver is a bad thing. This thing not only distracts, but gives the driver a false sense of security to drive beyond his vision.

Although I do agree that more driver training is a necessity that too many services overlook, completely closing your mind to the usefulness of this tool is just as dangerous. This is a tool.. not the only tool, but one of MANY that a driver can use to improve the safety of their travels. Let's remove all tools from a driver's arsenol... rearview mirrors, backup cams, seatbelts, airbags, speedometers.... this is only partially tongue-in-cheek...

This item is not meant for a driver to still be able to drive 100kmh (approx 60mph for those who don't use metric) in poor visibility conditions. It is meant to ASSIST, to be a tool, to improve safety.. On nights when I have to go out in blizzard conditions (does your service get to say "No ma'am, we won't be coming out to get your husband who has chest pain because weather conditions are too bad"?) I would love to have this tool to assist me.

Like any tool, people who use it need to realize its limitations, and that it is not the be all, end all of driving safety. But please don't put on your blinders and completely dismiss it as a "toy" or a "distraction".... That kind of narrow-mindedness prevents us from ever moving forward both educationally and technologically....

[tniuqs]

This is a horrible idea, in Canada, the U.S. or anywhere else. New toys are not always the answer, sometimes we need to revisit the basics

Ok I got to jump all over this wtf does VFR or IFR have to do with anything, were not flying here and the enviroment that you in the US for flight safety is abysmal at BEST ... dont go there. I just put down a FAA stats report, so tell me why FLIR is used on aircraft (single pilot) but not on ground again ... learning to fly VFR or IFR does not mean you JUST look at instrements ONLY, unless your on a "RiDE"

In VFR one always is look outside but learning how to set up a proper scan of instrument's, very simple really.

Talk about distractions ... lets talk about why we are going to more wrecks ... DAMN CELL phones and pple texting while driving ... sheesh.

More in depth driver training with a focus on crew resource and utilization of good decision making. If visibility is nill (i.e. less than 1/8 mile), then maybe you shouldn't be out on the road.

You have got to be kidding what kind of in-depth driver Ed do you want, issue superman vision or refusals to not go to that bus crash ? DUH ! But where this 1/8 of a mile came from that IS good driving weather where we come from. When your "ON" the road in a blizzard you can see EVERYTHING with a heat signature, yes pull over and stop is a great thing to do ... but so is " looking foreword" for safety.

For argement sake .. when GPS came out Trainers were agast that students using map and compass would loose their skills now you can pick up a tom tom for $300.00 ok $200.00 in the US.

On-Star or GPS cell phone transmisson ... should I go on ?

Cabin Utilization .. ok: Have the attendant watch the FLIR on a response and do Comms too its SOAP, on return alway's give a good safe ride and not "rushed" to the hospital so any advantage I get is ALL GOOD.

So lets talk utilization then use more ALS providers in Rural areas .. Get the ALS too the Patient FIRST then worry about transport .. In the modern EMS world carrying TNK/Volume Expanders/+++ this will save lives.

This rushed patient to Hospital mentallity thing has got to be replaced with "Rushed the Paramedic" to the Patient to Stabilize!

Logistics/ Senario ... Snow storm, or a even just "ground blow" no storm just crappy visability, so your 100 kms from a Major center and 50 kms from a rural hospital (Patient needs definitive care and to get to Major Center) no hope for Rotary or even Fixed wing support.

So sit on the side of the road, go back to rural facility with ole Doc ?

Or Hoping to get smoked by the next 18 wheeler that can't see your beacons from a 1/10 of a mile ... get the ass on the road.

Dustdevil: Agreed. Anything that has the potential to distract the driver is a bad thing. This thing not only distracts, but gives the driver a false sense of security to drive beyond his vision.

Disagree ... Call it Toy or Tool anything that will improve MY forward vision in a white out is safety not a distraction.

Fact: at 50 mph your outdriving your lights @ night even with Hi beams on and who travels at 50mph at night with good visability, so recognising a jacked knife semi in front of you based on heat signature at 2000 ft. the down side of is a bad thing ?

Cell phones, radar detectors, Scanners, GPS, computer dispatch screens could ALL be considered distraction or then just tools of the trade :twisted:

Heck, I even know a guy has a Radar Gun (but thats just for fun)

cheers

[Arctickat]

Just to add to my post, BMW and Land Rover have this as a factory installed option on some models.

Like some have said, and I agree, this system is a waste of money, useless, and can be dangerous in an urban setting. Traveling for 150 or 200 miles over open road where dangers lurk just beyond the headlights? Completely applicable. Glance at the monitor every few seconds as a reference point and safety check and there is no issue. I'll agree it's a distraction, and that's a good thing, because I'll bet that as soon as you see that 700 pound moose you'll be distracted as hell.

[Richard B the EMT]

I will presume that a vehicle mounted FLIR cannot see around corners, or into gullies at the side of the road, to detect that approaching deer, or whatever wildlife.

As for fog, snow, or any really bad inclement weather, for safety's sake, that is when a good driver slows down to posted road speed.

LOL.

Actually, I have driven in fog so thick on the "Belt Parkway", a posted 50 MPH road way, that I had to drive 10 to 15 MPH with the 4 ways activated, with nobody passing me, either! This, in my mom's car, not the emergency vehicles.

If one HAS to go in fog, speed is the enemy, just go slow and sure, keep the headlights on regular beam, not hi, as it only gets reflected back into your eyes, use the 4 ways, and hope you don't get rear ended by a fool who thinks because the fog hides other traffic, they are the only ones on the road, and fly too low.

[tniuqs]

I will presume that a vehicle mounted FLIR cannot see around corners, or into gullies at the side of the road, to detect that approaching deer, or whatever wildlife.

Ok quite obviously YOU have never been to Saskatchewan ... corners, gullies ? LMFAO!

Richard if you stand on a chair in Saskatchewan you can see your dog run to Mantioba, (sans fog of course or night) did you watch the video, this is ther perfect topographical application for FLIR .

Oh I can see the standard "stubble jumper" jokes headed this way now .... te he.

cheers

[Richard B the EMT]

Just Montreal. Twice. First time with friends on a whim (slept in a cow pasture) just before the Montreal Olympics, and second time on a bus tour 10 or so years later. Figure the second trip as about the time "Superman 2" opened, as they had signs all over the Niagara Falls (Canadian side) area, that the movie had been filmed there.