spenac Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Considering the company? Wow. I better keep my mouth shut. I'm about to say something that I'll severely regret. Wendy CO EMT-B Wendy though I said I would c-section please do not say you included me in that sarcastic comment. I played nice even though we were on different sides of the discussion. :nike:
Eydawn Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Not at all... I really do need to keep a lid on it, it was going to be something very nasty directed at specific individuals, and since I can't excuse it with PMS this time, I better not. Spenac, you're fine. Wendy CO EMT-B
crotchitymedic1986 Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 If you could hear my critics thinking right now: Oh my god, the potato disagreed with me, and had the nerve to type messages on the forum, how will I ever recooperate from the horrible bruises and fractures that this bully left me with ? I am just greatful that he didnt use "all caps" and scream at me, or I might of had to take an antidepressant. we could try to argue that an EMT/Paramedic license is more important than our partner's life; actually we have to since that is what we have said all througout this post. Nah, lets just get the thread shut down, that is easier.
Dustdevil Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Dust I disagree. He has chosen to antagonize rather than discuss. Had he been discussing then his scenario might have been worth the time to discuss. In fact many of the comments in this and other topics remind me of another person that chose to antagonize and was banned, but I could be wrong. Not trying to pick on you crotch but you really are coming off as for lack of better word as a jerk, not saying you are a jerk but that your posts come off that way. And if you are not a previously banned poster, Sorry. I agree that he has been antagonistic and trollish in the past. But I really don't see any evidence of it in this thread. It appears to me that he is honestly astonished that so few people here get such a simple concept, and is going out of his way to try and make the matter more black and white for those people with repeated attempts at analogy. Such things happen when you are frustrated to the point of banging your head against the wall by the density of those around you. I feel exactly where he is coming from. But again, I see no evidence that he is being intentionally antagonistic in this thread. If anything, he is only trying to get people to think. I'm not sure exactly what Wendy thought I meant by "considering the company", but apparently it was not what I intended. :roll:
Eydawn Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 The comments that I decided to keep a lid on weren't directed at you. And I take no offense, nor bruises, from the interchange we've had here. You just don't argue well, is all. That's what is so frustrating. You use classic debate follies... that were beaten out of me when I was 17 and in high school. *sighs* Did you read the part where I gave you props? Or did you just ignore the meat again? The potato thing was meant more in levity than anything else... Wendy CO EMT-B
spenac Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 If you could hear my critics thinking right now: Oh my god, the potato disagreed with me, and had the nerve to type messages on the forum, how will I ever recooperate from the horrible bruises and fractures that this bully left me with ? I am just greatful that he didnt use "all caps" and scream at me, or I might of had to take an antidepressant. we could try to argue that an EMT/Paramedic license is more important than our partner's life; actually we have to since that is what we have said all througout this post. Nah, lets just get the thread shut down, that is easier. Crotch discussion is great. But you have came off as a royal jerk rather than someone willing to discuss. I was on the side of c-section, amputating, etc. But you honestly just started belittling peoples intelligence and morals. On this site in discussion we can all say what we think we would do, but you know if it ever happened who really knows what we would decide. I do apologize if that seems blunt rude etc.
crotchitymedic1986 Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Sorry dust, if i knew you was gonna have my back, i wouldve toned it down abit. I think everyone should reread the post (yes i know its on its 13 page now) and count the number of times I have called someone a name, versus the number of times my name or character has been impuned. Up until this last page, I have only questioned your rationale for the decision, and then offered you a scenario where you might realize that there are no grey areas when it comes to morals --- there is right and wrong. When I finally found the two remaining brain cells I have left that prove this point --- using your partner as the patient --- then everyone realized they were wrong, and decided to take their ball and go home. This is my last message on this post, as I am sure I am about one name calling away from not staying professional, and then the thread will get shut down. My final question, to all of you who called me names, said I was a bully, please just answer the question: If it were your partner who needed the emergent life saving act, that was outside your scope, would you save your License or your Partner ? You had the guts to stand up for what you believe in, and to attack us cowboys. Are there still only 3 cowboys in the room ? And dont call someone a troll just because they disagree with you --- thats arrogant. Love you long time, GROUP HUG EVERYONE !!!! I am outta here, so please dont ask me for a reponse, if you need one PM me.
spenac Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Sorry dust, if i knew you was gonna have my back, i wouldve toned it down abit. I think everyone should reread the post (yes i know its on its 13 page now) and count the number of times I have called someone a name, versus the number of times my name or character has been impuned. Up until this last page, I have only questioned your rationale for the decision, and then offered you a scenario where you might realize that there are no grey areas when it comes to morals --- there is right and wrong. When I finally found the two remaining brain cells I have left that prove this point --- using your partner as the patient --- then everyone realized they were wrong, and decided to take their ball and go home. This is my last message on this post, as I am sure I am about one name calling away from not staying professional, and then the thread will get shut down. My final question, to all of you who called me names, said I was a bully, please just answer the question: If it were your partner who needed the emergent life saving act, that was outside your scope, would you save your License or your Partner ? You had the guts to stand up for what you believe in, and to attack us cowboys. Are there still only 3 cowboys in the room ? And dont call someone a troll just because they disagree with you --- thats arrogant. Love you long time, GROUP HUG EVERYONE !!!! I am outta here, so please dont ask me for a reponse, if you need one PM me. Keep in mind I am one of the cowboys you refer to and I am one that feels your method of continuing was wrong.
mobey Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Oh my god, the potato disagreed with me, and had the nerve to type messages on the forum, how will I ever recooperate from the horrible bruises and fractures that this bully left me with ? I am just greatful that he didnt use "all caps" and scream at me, or I might of had to take an antidepressant. Drahhhmaaa we could try to argue that an EMT/Paramedic license is more important than our partner's life; actually we have to since that is what we have said all througout this post. I never said anything about my partner/family I would lose my career in a second for either one. A random patient though, well just ask any patient who has died in my care due to the constraints of working in a bls ambulance (and my choices within that ambulance ie: not to RSI a pulmonary edema patient with poor air movement ). If I were to answer this question in two years when I am done school, I am sure my tune will have changed, since around here Paramedics are accepted as more of a health care provider than a taxi driver with O2. I am not sayin I would sleep good at night with my choice not to pull the baby out of a stranger, but I believe I would get even less sleep if I threw away all my hard work up to this point on one fetus. using your partner as the patient --- then everyone realized they were wrong, In my opinion to change some random patient to our partner then calling us wrong is not entirely fair. There is nothing I would not do for my family/partner. It would be no question for me to cric, intubate, amputate, push all the meds I know, and anything else I can do for either one, however I would not do those things routinly at work on every patient I encounter (not saying I don't push the limits), really it is two different set of morals to me. As I type I realize I am a pretty heartless person. Why would I intubate my mother if I had to but not a total stranger? Is it wrong of me not to put my cert on the line for each critical patient I come across, and treat them no different that I would my auntie? Hmmm, maybe I am a heartless provider, and maybe I am cheating my patients out of proper care. But unfortunatly for them until I get my Medic diploma that is how it will stay. I like to blame the town for not providing ALS to it's citizens, but I can see where it may be easy to turn the finger on me and say I am not doing all I can with the tools at hand.
WolfmanHarris Posted December 12, 2008 Posted December 12, 2008 Once again, I ended up convinced (after a fashion) and agreed with the procedure. So while I agree with you, I have questioned your methods. Browbeating refers to a behaviour not a person or their character. For example, one can act like a jerk from time to time, but not themselves be a jerk. Remember, when fully informed of the facts in question and clear on the pros and cons, people can still disagree. Creating scenarios where someone is left no choice but to agree doesn't actually bring someone onto your side in the original question, only a concept which no bears little to no resemblence. It's a hell of a leap to go from "you're right. In a plane crash in the middle of nowhere if a loved one was injured I'd do anything possible to save them; in my scope or not." to "because in that extreme situation I would go outside my comfort zone, then it must of course be the right way to go in any situation." And that's the problem I have with the scenarios you've brought up. Claiming that C-sections are done daily by those with no training around the world, while not elaborating or backing it up is equally problematic. Allow me to demonstrate, "Paramedics lose their license and livelihood daily for improper practice resulting in their families living on the street and the destruction of live." Anyways, this whole discussion is pretty much a shambles and I doubt much more productive is going to come from this. I did however learn alot in the debate in the first few pages. For that, thanks. - Matt
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