Ambulance attendants accused of molesting patients

[Dustdevil]

I'm gonna split the decision on this one.

Dwayne, you are absolutely correct about Doc Harris. It was a legitimate and non defamatory question, and certainly one that crossed my mind long before this discussion. I think Ruff read too much into it.

But you were out of line with Moby. You were starting to sound like me after three months away from Iraq, and that's not a good thing. Just sayin'... be on the lookout for signs.

[spenac]

I'm gonna split the decision on this one.

Dwayne, you are absolutely correct about Doc Harris. It was a legitimate and non defamatory question, and certainly one that crossed my mind long before this discussion. I think Ruff read too much into it.

But you were out of line with Moby. You were starting to sound like me after three months away from Iraq, and that's not a good thing. Just sayin'... be on the lookout for signs.

Oh crap Dwayne I hope they caught the Dustitis before it became terminal. :twisted:

And rereading I see I may have gone in to a fight w/o justification. Docs comments do seem to be more putting a possibility out there rather than a fact.

[WolfmanHarris]

Dwayne, I appreciate the back-up and I'm glad I hadn't missed the point I was trying to communicate so poorly that someone got it, but I honestly didn't mind taking a minute to clear it up. My apology was to anyone who despite my disclaimer still took it as an attack, because that was the last thing I wanted. From everything that's said about Basic education on the City, EMS could use way more Basics like those on here. But they are a credit to Basics despite their training class, not because of it.

Online it can sometimes be difficult to communicate clearly in a potentially emotionally charged discussion without leaving room for misinterpretation. I don't mind getting smacked down a bit from time to time when I'm out of line, even unintentionally. I'm so green I look like the Hulk. Anyways, sorry for stirring up the pot too badly.

With regards to the reports referencing medics more than EMT's I'll expand my original question. Do medic mills, in combination with piss poor standards EMT education and a job market where there's limited competition nationally for job and a great deal of mobility allowing a provider to move from place to place to work, provider not only an attractive work environment for a potential predator, but make it incredibly easy for them to get in? Aside from a proper education (degree, 2yrs+, etc) which we've done to death, what can be done at the schooling level to decrease this.

As was asked above, how does EMS compare to other occupations with exposure to vulnerable sectors for prevalence of sex offenders/charges of sexual impropriety? What can be done to screen out potential predators? What is currently being done?

Convicted sex offenders aside, does the fact that most of us work alone and in private contribute more to complaint numbers than actual impropriety? Now before it comes up; I'm not one to ever jump to the "they must be making it up" reaction to a sexual offense complaint, but we do know that they do occur. While cameras are being discussed in Crotchity's thread (sorta), what else can be done to safeguard providers and patients in the back against assault or complaints?

- Matt

[DwayneEMTP]

I'm gonna split the decision on this one.

Dwayne, you are absolutely correct about Doc Harris. It was a legitimate and non defamatory question, and certainly one that crossed my mind long before this discussion. I think Ruff read too much into it.

But you were out of line with Moby. You were starting to sound like me after three months away from Iraq, and that's not a good thing. Just sayin'... be on the lookout for signs.

Yeah, hopefully I made right with Mobey. I like his posts and his attitude even if he won't listen to a friggin thing I say... :wink: Actually, I think I like that best.

And I've noticed a little shift. There is definately a learning curve, both mentally and physiologically here I think, but I'm shifting back. When half the people I like at the City mention I might wanna quit being an ass I take it as a sign. :shock:

But in all seriousness...I hear you loud and clear brother...thanks for the thoughts.

Dwayne

[spenac]

While cameras are being discussed in Crotchity's thread (sorta), what else can be done to safeguard providers and patients in the back against assault or complaints?

- Matt

Develope a method of working and documenting. Any variation from the normal document why. If you touch any "no-no's" document why. Disclose that you visually or physically did things. Then there is no appearance of hiding your actions thus less likely to be proven guilty if not guilty.

[Richard B the EMT]

It doesn't matter if the crime is done by ALS or BLS personnel. Every one of us gets the "Black Eye," as the rest of the world looks at us, now with suspicion in their eyes, asking themselves if we do the same crime but have not yet been caught. Obviously, this is the larger majority of us in EMS who DON'T perpetrate crimes of any sort.

[Dustdevil]

It doesn't matter if the crime is done by ALS or BLS personnel. Every one of us gets the "Black Eye," as the rest of the world looks at us, now with suspicion in their eyes, asking themselves if we do the same crime but have not yet been caught.

Excellent point! But I would still agree that, if we can identify a factor of our profession that not only attracts the wrong people, but also allows them easy entry, that should be something that we should seriously address. And failure to do so would reflect that the profession is not serious about weeding those problems out.

[mobey]

Yeah, hopefully I made right with Mobey. I like his posts and his attitude even if he won't listen to a friggin thing I say... :wink: Actually, I think I like that best.

Dwayne

Hahaha.... Alot of times I have a knee-jerk argue reaction, but reality is once I sit back and think about it a little, maybe even discuss it with my partner, I soon open my mind!

As far as this thread goes, I don't think there is any fool-proof way to stop these kind of people from entering our profession.

Around here, A criminal records check (Or at least a dangerous offenders portion) is required by the schools, and most urban employers. Of course that means they would have needed to be arrested once for a preditory act.

As a person with a sexual preditor in thier extended family I can tell you this (in my experience): These people do not define themselves as a sexual preditor. The fact is, a predator may enter EMS thinking he will NEVER abuse one of his patients, in fact he may not do things like cut cloths or vaginal exams for years to keep himself away from the temptation because he knows he has compulsions he cannot control. But eventually his sickness will get the best of him (generic him).

So although it looks as though the predators may be saying to themselves "Hey this looks like an easy/cheap way to get a fix" that may not be the case at all.

[WolfmanHarris]

Mobey, you're right. That's a distinction that I should have considered. There are predatory sex offenders out there who might be consciously drawn to EMS but there are also a great deal of ill people whose compulsions may one day get the better of them. It was a mistake for me to lump these people in with the worst of the worst. While I empathize with those that are likely good people unable to fight their own compulsions, they do not have a place in EMS anymore than the predators.

There are treatments available for offenders but from what I understand their difficult to access outside of the criminal justice system, not to mention the stigma that would go along with it. I hope that those who have to fight these compulsions and have done nothing wrong succeed and never harm a soul; but until and unless there is a way we can guarantee this, I don't believe they should be in EMS.

[Dustdevil]

Sometimes the pre-conceived, stereotypical notion holds true in reality though. Anyone here ever not known a lesbian PE teacher? Seriously, more than half the PE teachers I've ever met in my life were lesbians. So we have to recognise that this may be going on in our profession to, and take steps to stop and/or prevent it.