Lone Star Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 Before bashing the UAW for GM, Ford and Chrysler's problems, let's take a long look at something a little closer to the truth. The 'Big Three' have been shipping our jobs out of the country at an alarming rate, to other countries where they don't have to pay workers nearly what the US worker would get. Since the loss of all the assembly jobs in the US (thank Bill Clinton and NAFTA and GATT for that), the unemployed, dislocated and the left behind auto workers that USED to buy what they made, can no longer afford the over priced cars and trucks being spewed out into the market these days. Those people that are now assembling these new cars and trucks will NEVER be able to afford to buy what they make. Having worked in the auto industry for a number of years, (and yes, I was a card carrying member of the UAW), I can tell you that just because you're in the 'auto industry', you're NOT guaranteed to make the $50.00/hr that has been spouted in the news. My father worked for General Motors for 30 years. Even with top seniority in his job classification (Fork Truck Driver), he was only making a whopping $55,000.00/yr. That only boils down to $27.50/ hr. I don't know how much you think union dues are, but I can tell you that it's typically only 2 hours pay per month. For that 2 hours of pay, they offer education, bargaining strength, and protection from the 'at will' bullshit that most of us face. Toss in legal services and negotiation of fair wages and benefits as well. Got a supervisor that doesn't like you? In an 'at will' job, do you dare speak out? Of course not, because you know that as soon as you start 'rocking the boat', your butt is in the unemployment line, branded as someone who is 'not a team player'. The union gives you the protection to speak out without getting thrown out of the nearest door. Got someone at your place of employment who seems to be getting all the gravy assignments, even though they've been there less time than you have? The union can 'equalize' things (overtime for example). Tired of getting passed over for promotions by people that have been there YEARS less than you have? A union puts an end to that too! With a union, seniority actually MEANS something! In the 'at will' environment, seniority means NOTHING! By some of the posts in this thread, I can see that most of the posters have NEVER seen what a union can actually do, (especially with a good representative team). Most people can't seem to get past the 'pay to work' misconception. Another 'problem' that the 'Big Three' faces, is people that don't retire after 30 years. I've personally known GM workers that have been at the 'job' for 40+ years, because each time they get ready to retire, they rush out and buy a vacation cottage, new RV, a boat...(you get the idea), and they find that they can't afford to retire. How can GM and the others get 'new blood' in the plants, when the 'old blood' won't vacate the jobs?
spenac Posted December 15, 2008 Author Posted December 15, 2008 I do not deny that unions at one point did great things for the american worker. But now I think they go to the extreme. But this can also be said for really most groups. Anti-gun groups for example go to the extreme take all guns. Yet NRA and others want the other extreme. I understand that you push for all you can do but I have seen unions cost jobs when plants closed. Are the car companys innocent no they are at the other extreme. There needs to be some give and take, but both sides just want to take and sadly in the end there are going to be major job losses that will hurt the nations and worlds economy even more.
ambodriver Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 Nonsense. Apparently you've never lived in a non-union state. Regardless, the private, for-profits have unions too. So if unions are the reason for high wages, why aren't they making more money too? Economics much? :roll: the economics where I'm from show that non-unionized EMS workers (100% of them for profit, private "EMS") get paid cose to min. wage with horrible insurance and no pension. Maybe a measly 1-2% match in a IRA. whoopty dooooooo. That's how it is where I am from. Unions negotiate realistic wages instead of raping people. Especially medics. Why should a private medic in Chicago make 9-13 dollars an hour? Pretty hard to live off that........
Dustdevil Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 the economics where I'm from show that non-unionized EMS workers (100% of them for profit, private "EMS") get paid cose to min. wage with horrible insurance and no pension. Maybe a measly 1-2% match in a IRA. whoopty dooooooo. That's how it is where I am from. Sounds like you made a bad career choice. You didn't check this out before you decided to put all your eggs in the EMS basket? And are you talking about real EMS, or just your run of the mill private transport jockeys? Huge difference. Unions negotiate realistic wages instead of raping people. Especially medics. The fact remains that unionised private EMS is still seriously underpaid too. And that's what destroys your assumption. Even with the unions, they still make significantly less than the firemonkeys. So obviously, it has zero to do with unions and more to do with being undereducated, blue-collar labourers instead of respected and educated professionals. Elevate your game, and your wages will follow. Why should a private medic in Chicago make 9-13 dollars an hour? Pretty hard to live off that........ The bigger question is, why should anyone live in Chicago to begin with? It's a craphole.
ambodriver Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 Sounds like you made a bad career choice. You didn't check this out before you decided to put all your eggs in the EMS basket? And are you talking about real EMS, or just your run of the mill private transport jockeys? Huge difference. The fact remains that unionised private EMS is still seriously underpaid too. And that's what destroys your assumption. Even with the unions, they still make significantly less than the firemonkeys. So obviously, it has zero to do with unions and more to do with being undereducated, blue-collar labourers instead of respected and educated professionals. Elevate your game, and your wages will follow. The bigger question is, why should anyone live in Chicago to begin with? It's a craphole. Whoa dude I think you misunderstand me I work for a muncipality. Wnhat do you mean did I check this out and putting all my eggs in a basket? I make good money, have a pension coming to me and have great benefits..............wtf are you talking about man? I'm telling you how it is here where I am--unless you have worked out here, and know how it works out here I wouldn't pretend to know how it is. Like I said--this is how it is where I am---not sure about anywhere else. Chicago is a great city so not sure wth you are talking about. I'm talking about the area where I live, non-unionized EMS makes shit money out here, "transfer jockeys" or real ems. So this is about where I am and how it works here. Not sure how it works wherever you are, but the union does us good here. edit: let it be known that in the chicago area 911 is handled by FD's---I am a single role medic working in the FD.
Dustdevil Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 Like I said--this is how it is where I am---not sure about anywhere else. Chicago is a great city so not sure wth you are talking about. I'm talking about the area where I live, non-unionized EMS makes shit money out here, "transfer jockeys" or real ems. So this is about where I am and how it works here. Not sure how it works wherever you are, but the union does us good here. You just said, we aren't talking about you. We are talking about PRIVATES. Union or not, they still make crap wages, so the union has zero to do with it. They make crap because they aren't government parasites. Period. With a union, they still make crap. I know that's how it works. I knew it before you even knew what an ambulance was. I'm not misunderstanding you. You're just not making any sense.
ambodriver Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 Never heard of a private with a union around here. So unionized private EMS still makes shit pay? That really sucks. A private is a private though. The ones around here like I said medics make about 9-13 an hour, its pretty dismal. I guess like how every service is different, every union is different too. I did my time on the privates. Around here its just a dead end job.
CBEMT Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 The UAW probably has absolutely nothing to do with anything in regards to these truths. Therefore, they are victims of this crisis that their corporate management created. You're right. Forcing the manufacturers to pay 12,000 people $30 an hour or more to play cards for years on end, plus full family benefits (among other absurdities) had NOTHING to do with it. :roll:
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