Needing fire on a cardiac arrest

[crazyemt5150]

Ok so the other night My partner and I were sitting at a post covering our area, and we heard a structure fire go out. As fire arrives on scene they have a working structure on their hands single alarm, fully involved motor home, seconds after that a cardiac arrest goes out in the area. The bat chief arrived on scene and took over there was a total of three engines on scene. Moments later the ambulance crew responding to the cardiac arrest arrived on scene and requested help to work up the cardiac arrest from the fire department. During the process before ECC asked the bat chief, he stated that the motor home is almost burned to the ground and this is going to be a shovel operation. ECC then came up and asked if he could send someone from the structure to assist the ambulance. He came on and said no they needed extra man power, now come on I don't know about you guys but I do think he could of sent at least one firefighter and a engineer to help out. The cardiac arrest was only a couple blocks away and the majority of the crews weren't doing anything and there was only one hydrant. I'm not sure on the standard procedures on structures but I bet you that if that was one of his family members he would of sent someone over to help, Granite it is a luxury having a someone help then the medic doesn't have to juggle compression, ventilations, iv, pushing med's and so forth

[Chief1C]

We usually run a two man crew, three if we're doing CPR; but the extra lifting assistance is nice. If fire will come, they don't always grant the request for assistance. The state police will assist on occasion, uninvited. They don't give much aid, but they'll carry our stuff back out.

[spenac]

All I have to say is WHY?

Ok I'll add more. There is no need for fire on a code. They fight fire. EMS does prehospital medicine. Unless you restart the patients heart no reason even to need a driver.

[crazyemt5150]

All I have to say is WHY?

Ok I'll add more. There is no need for fire on a code. They fight fire. EMS does prehospital medicine. Unless you restart the patients heart no reason even to need a driver.

Ok then help me futher understand then why do we need firemedics if they are there to fight fires. In the area that I work in and surrounding areas if there is a code and it a unit transports, a firefighter will go and normally help out I don't work in a rural area and transport time to a hospital is anywhere from 10 to 15 min's that's a short time so you think medics should work a code on their own. Start meds do compressions and push meds and vent. I'm not trying to start anything but just grasp everything in ems and how it works everywhere just not where I work

[spenac]

Ok then help me futher understand then why do we need firemedics if they are there to fight fires. In the area that I work in and surrounding areas if there is a code and it a unit transports, a firefighter will go and normally help out I don't work in a rural area and transport time to a hospital is anywhere from 10 to 15 min's that's a short time so you think medics should work a code on their own. Start meds do compressions and push meds

First there should be no rolling codes. So that means there are two EMS professionals available to work the code. If you need help call another medical professional not a firefighter. Fire should not be in EMS thus your right there should be no fire medics, but that is another discussion. There is no point transporting dead people endangering all the living people in the ambulance and in your community. If they have a return of circulation then one medic can monitor them to the hospital.

Is it just me or am I the only one that has never worked a code in the field with more than me and my partner? No return they are covered there and funeral home comes and transports.

[brentoli]

First there should be no rolling codes. So that means there are two EMS professionals available to work the code. ... There is no point transporting dead people endangering all the living people in the ambulance and in your community. If they have a return of circulation then one medic can monitor them to the hospital.

+1

[JPINFV]

Ok then help me futher understand then why do we need firemedics if they are there to fight fires.

A lot of people here have been asking that question for a while now. The conclusion that we come to is that we don't actually need fire medics. Paramedicine and fire suppression are two completely different disciplines.

In the area that I work in and surrounding areas if there is a code and it a unit transports, a firefighter will go and normally help out I don't work in a rural area and transport time to a hospital is anywhere from 10 to 15 min's that's a short time so you think medics should work a code on their own. Start meds do compressions and push meds and vent. I'm not trying to start anything but just grasp everything in ems and how it works everywhere just not where I work

You're from California (the 5150 gives it away). If all you know is fire based prehospital "care" then you probably wouldn't understand. Paramedics can run a cardiac arrest just like a physician in the emergency room and bring the same treatments to the patient. The problem is that compressions while transporting is worthless. Remember, the first 11-12 compressions are just building up pressure to start circulation. This is why it's now 30/2 and not 15/2. It also doesn't take much to lose that pressure. You hit a bump and stop compressions? Cool, now the patient doesn't have any circulation till you hit ~11 compressions again. Take a hard turn? Cool, now your patient doesn't have any circulation till you hit ~11 compressions again. You essentially now have 10 minutes of no effective CPR. You are transporting a dead body.

The problem is that fire medics are more interested in getting back to the lazy boy than providing good medical care.

[crazyemt5150]

A lot of people here have been asking that question for a while now. The conclusion that we come to is that we don't actually need fire medics. Paramedicine and fire suppression are two completely different disciplines.

You're from California (the 5150 gives it away). If all you know is fire based prehospital "care" then you probably wouldn't understand. Paramedics can run a cardiac arrest just like a physician in the emergency room and bring the same treatments to the patient. The problem is that compressions while transporting is worthless. Remember, the first 11-12 compressions are just building up pressure to start circulation. This is why it's now 30/2 and not 15/2. It also doesn't take much to lose that pressure. You hit a bump and stop compressions? Cool, now the patient doesn't have any circulation till you hit ~11 compressions again. Take a hard turn? Cool, now your patient doesn't have any circulation till you hit ~11 compressions again. You essentially now have 10 minutes of no effective CPR. You are transporting a dead body.

The problem is that fire medics are more interested in getting back to the lazy boy than providing good medical care.

Ok answer me this have you ever seen a physician in the emergency room working a cardiac arrest by himself, NO for one while he is getting ready to intubate, you have a nurse doing compression, normally a nurse starting a line and so forth. Once again I'm not trying to start anything but just get a grasp on how other companies work. I work for a private ambulance company and we don't have firemedics here. I have always seen a firefighter ride in with the crew on the way to the hospital. I have even seen a captain ride in just to help

[Eydawn]

It is more difficult to run a code with two people and then again, it cuts down on confusion. More hands on scene = more likely that you're going to have a cluster.

We always have fire with us... we're a county service and fire automatically comes to scene with us. It can be useful when we have one of their intermediates with us... another set of hands to draw up drugs... and everyone else kind of stands around as human IV poles, waiting to help lift if we get pulses back and all that...

Are they absolutely necessary? No. If you have a good working relationship with your FD, are they helpful? I would have to say yes, without wanting to get into the Fire vs EMS debate. I have been very grateful for the FD in my area, and have started to see that there is a lot of crossover, some of them also work strictly medical with us.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Dustdevil]

You're spoiled. A great deal of the medics in the US don't have the luxury of all those extra hands. A lot of ER docs don't either. Yes, I've seen ER docs running an arrest with nothing but a nurse and the transporting crew (maybe) helping. A competent medic doesn't need a bunch of yard apes doing his grunt work for him.

Consider every opportunity to demonstrate that you really don't need firemonkeys in your face a victory, not a reason to complain.