Are You A Spinner?

[JaxSage]

Probably one of the worst things about EMS is having partners who get too tensed up during a call and start spinning all over the place. I'm probably one of the most laid back and relax guys in my agency, the type of guy who would still be joking during a trauma code. And I love to have partners who are also calm and controlled rather than tensed and crazy. What do you guys think?

[EMTsheri]

Where do you work as an EMT....private, city, or industrial? I ask that for a reason. Do you make many calls where you have to clear the scene quickly due to lack of coverage, or can you take 30 minutes to get pt info on scene?

I personally am hyper, but obviously not THAT hyper because I'm 45 years old. <wink> I don't freak out on any call, not even with a child. Now, if you have a major trauma I would much rather be working with someone who is laid back yet QUICK at at their responsibilities with the pt. I don't think that "joking around at a trauma scene would be appropriate". That would tell me that you were not focused on the pts care.

As far as working with someone that is a "spinner".as you say... Hmmmm Not good if you are implying that they are tense on evry run they make. I'd say if that's the case, they are insecure with their abilities on the job.

[Mateo_1387]

I hope nobody takes me as cocky or anything but...

I am a n0ob parapup and was released after two days. When I go on calls, I do not feel scared or start spinning. Sometimes (kind of rare) I get nervous, but I think that is just being a n0ob. In fact, I have had a few calls where my coworkers have or probably would freak out. I just handle myself as calmly as possible. I normally am fairly mellow.

Also, I firmly believe that education has a lot to do with how much one spins. Some old paramedic classmates and I share EMS experiences, and we have all come to the conclusion that the Associates Degree prepared us much better than a continuing education course. We ride among other n0ob paramedics who graduated from Con. Ed. Courses, and we collectively notice they spin on rather simple calls, where they deal with a sick person, but they are an easy patient to manage, medically speaking. I think it is all in how much you know, the more education you have, the more confident you can be.

[spenac]

People always comment how calm I am on even the worst of scenes. They all say wow nothing affects you. Some have accused me of being completely calloused. Well inside I may be scared beyond any of them but I learned very early on if you appear calm and sure of yourself even serious patients seem to do better. Perhaps my being calm makes them think hey must not be as bad as it seems. Who knows? But I have had to send a couple of people back to the ambulance so they could regain composure. There is no freaking out on my scenes.

[JakeEMTP]

I have been informed that people can't believe how calm I am on scene. Being older than dirt has something to do with it. I to am a new parapup with almost a year's experience. Look, it is what it is. We are educated to handle certain situations appropriately. There is absolutely no reason to get your panties in a wad at a call. We do what we have to.

Sure I've been on calls with pucker factor 10. I can't help my patient if I loose my shyte. The key is to be like a duck on a pond. That way if your partner doesn't see you freakin' out, they won't and will be an asset to me rather than a liability. Also, I believe there is some benefit to the pt. if they observe me kinda just doing my thing instead of loosing my mind. I haven't any evidence this is true, just an observation.

[dahlio]

I'll be the first to admit, that I get nervous on scenes. It's gotten better since I was first an EMT, and I've definitely mellowed out. Most of the time it's just me asking myself, "Did I forget to do something, Am I Missing something in my assessment?". Most of the time this happens when I'm working with certain partners, or while ALS is coming in. I've gotten much better, and much calmer, but I believe I'm very focused on scene. Of course those more intense calls, I do sweat, especially once we're moving, I think about, "What can I do now?". I've been better and just take a second to take a deep breath, and continue. I'm sure with experience, it will gradually get better.

[crazyemt5150]

I'm the same way as the majority of the people who posted, I'm starting to become a seasoned salty employee. But I do remember when I first started a strait up rookie that it took awhile to get the grasp on everything. But I work for a private ambulance company and we run 100,00 plus calls a year. I have realized that the more calls you run, and the more you learn you start to feel more confident. But I still will sweat on a good call but not in a bad way in a good way do to I'm working my ass off LOL

[JaxSage]

EMT Sheri, I work for Durham EMS in North Carolina, and it could get so busy that we often run out of ambulances. We do things pretty quickly here, especially in red-tag medical or trauma calls. However, for the most part (just like anywhere else), the calls we respond to are either bogus or not serious enough for us to "load and go." By the way, when I say that I joke around during bad calls, I don't mean to say that I become a stand-up comedian. For example, one night my first call was for a bad shooting and the dude was bleeding all over the place. It was the nastiest and bloodiest call I've been to. However, I told the fire fighter who was in the back with me and my partner, "What a way to start the night, huh," while I was smiling.

I don't think it's so much of the education that makes us calm, though it helps a lot when you know exactly what you need to do. No matter what call you go on, ultimately everything would be done the same way. Everything is routine no matter what: ABC's, initial assessment, control life-threatening situations first, so on, so on. Besides, it's the patient's emergency, not mine, so why freak out

I usually have a saying on the job: "It's all gravy, man."

[Dustdevil]

Plus 5, Sarge! This is a good topic! :salute:

I've worked with a couple of spinners over the years. I've been lucky to never have been stuck with one who was out of control, or was unable to develop out of that stage with a little experience and guidance. But I have certainly witnessed a lot of others in the field who ran around like chickens with their heads come off. It's like a big spring that's been wound too tight that is suddenly set loose on your scene. It's terribly annoying and counterproductive to good practice.

A few good points have been made here regarding the factors that contribute to this phenomenon, or rather contribute to avoiding the phenomenon. Having precepted providers at all levels, of all educational backgrounds, I would agree that the following are significant factors:

• 1. Age. It is indeed less likely that an older medic is less prone to uncontrolled releases of adrenaline and norepinephrine, which is the physiological cause of spinning. They certainly are not immune to it as a group. However, it is indisputable that the phenomenon is much less common in the 35+ crowd.

2. Education. The degreed medics do indeed seem much better prepared for practice all around. Even those tech schools that provide a significant amount of ride time still seem to fall short. The figures tell me that this is more than just the education itself. It is also the type of person who chooses a degree education in the first place. Those who choose the tech school route over a degree programme exhibit from the beginning that they are impatient and in a hurry. That attitude carries over to field practice. Spending two years obtaining an education, as opposed to 13 weeks or 6 to 12 months, instils a particular attitude in a student. It shows him from the start that medical practice is a structured, deliberate and focused process that takes time to learn, and therefore, to practise. Unfortunately, the tech schools only feed into the spinner mentality by perpetuating the misconception that paramedic practice is nothing more than a collection of first aid skills that can be quickly learned, and therefore quickly applied. While spinners certainly do still come out of the degreed education system occasionally, it is MUCH less common, and they are MUCH easier developed into more calm practitioners. And of course, the better, more comprehensive educational foundation those graduates receive simply prepares them better with the confidence they need to quickly hit their stride and develop a calm routine. That extra educational background means it is much less common to find yourself asking, "WTF is happening here?" with your patients. I would also note that advanced education has also shown to be a positive factor, even if it isn't EMS education. The best partners I have ever had had bachelor degrees in another discipline prior to coming to EMS.

3. Experience. Obviously, the more you work, the more you are able to get it out of your system. More experience enables you to achieve the competence necessary to lose the anxiety you started off with. You lose the uncertainty you had over whether or not you could do the job without killing people. Of course, there are some people who are still freak-outs after three or five years of experience too. Although, that is typically a volunteer phenomenon. I don't see that happening with full time professional EMS medics.

4. Culture. Each organisation has a predominant culture within. If your organisation is heavily populated by undereducated whackers with very little experience, the chances that you will be a spinner are greatly increased. Just read the stories here at EMT City. Everytime someone posts a story of their partner or some other medic or EMT freaking out and being stupid on a scene, it invariably turns out to be a volly squad of some sort. It's almost 100 percent specific to volly organisations. Put those people in a paid professional EMS organisation for a month and they usually become a different provider. Hopefully.

• I'm not a fan of the old, "It's not my emergency" attitude. I do like the effect that the saying has on some people, in that they do tend to calm down when they take it to heart. However, I want my providers to calm down for the right reasons, not because they heard a catchy, bumper sticker phrase that really disrespects our patients and our job. Providers should develop a calm, deliberate, intelligent, and thorough style of practice because they realise the value to their patients to practise professionally, not because they don't think their job is an emergency. This is an example of the difference between a degreed medic and a tech school medic. The degreed medic typically graduates with that understanding already established. The tech school medic graduates with the attitude that their practice is just a bunch of technical monkey steps to be performed, and that there is some sort of race to complete them, with no concern for thoroughness or quality.

I'm curious as to how often you guys are seeing the "spinner" phenomenon in your organisations. Is it limited to young n00bs? Is it the predominant culture in your area? Does it often seem to work itself over time? Or is it 'once a spinner, always a spinner'? Are there any other identifiable factors contributing to it that you have noticed that I have not listed? Were you ever a spinner? How did you work it out?

[spenac]

Worst spinner I have ever seen is a long time Paramedic, some call him Dust. :twisted:

But seriously one long term Paramedic is the worst spinner I have ever met. Even very minor calls he gets so worked up scene times are extended. Patients even get freaked out.