Excessive police force and medical care

[paramedicmike]

This isn't really EMS news but we are involved as a bit of a side issue because we do transport some of these people.

I'm curious as to the details here. What kind of questions were asked in the survey? Were the docs aware of the events leading up to the arrest?

This isn't intended to bash cops so let's not go that way.

[web:97fefe9d33]http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081224/hl_nm/us_police_er[/web:97fefe9d33]

[JPINFV]

reported that they had managed cases that they suspected or that the patient stated had involved excessive use of force by law enforcement officers.

Really? You mean suspects who resist arrest often claim that they've been a victim of excess force? Say it ain't so!

[under-dreaming]

I recently treated a pt. who had stabbed himself multiple times in the chest. Prior to my arrival, the officer on scene had hit him with a taser because the pt. was in a hostile state with a knife. I would bet that this pt. will go on to say that the police were excessive. The doctor in the ER sure looked surprised when I told him about the taser. The doctor may have thought it was excessive also, if he was judging by the pt. demeanor upon arrival in the ER (much more calm). What happens in the field and how it translates to others is often misunderstood. Naturally, everything in our world is corruptible and police brutality is not uncommon in some places. But when it comes down to a pt. in the hospital who had a run-in with the law telling you if he feels like he was treated fairly by an officer... well I don't think those sources are often reliable.

[crotchitymedic1986]

Not really the same thing, but if you havent read up on the problems associated with police "hogtying" (perp on his belly with wrist and ankles bound behind his back), you really need to google it and read up. For many patients that suddenly die in the car or cell, hogtying is the reason.

[ERDoc]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1910409...Pubmed_RVDocSum

[Dustdevil]

A large majority (96.5 percent) reported that they had no departmental policies on reporting their suspicions or they did not know of a policy to guide their actions, and 93.7 percent said they had received no education or training in dealing with these situations.

However, most emergency physicians (69.5 percent) felt that it was within their scope of practice to refer cases of suspected use of excessive force for investigation and almost half (47.9 percent) felt that emergency physicians should be legally required to report cases of suspected use of excessive force by law enforcement officers.

Hahaha... how awesome would it be if they passed a law for mandatory reporting of suspected police brutality, the same as for child abuse?

Irony is good.

[WolfmanHarris]

Not really the same thing, but if you havent read up on the problems associated with police "hogtying" (perp on his belly with wrist and ankles bound behind his back), you really need to google it and read up. For many patients that suddenly die in the car or cell, hogtying is the reason.

My reading in a few Police trade journals found a far amount of awareness on positional aphyxia. Particularly with regards to "excited delerium." My understanding is this is no longer considered acceptable practice any more than us restraining a patient face down on the stretcher. I don't doubt this still occurs, anymore than I doubt that there's incompetent EMS providers, but it seems that on an industry level they've recognized this issue. I know it's covered at the Ontario Police College.

The taser's gotten such a bad reputation that I sometimes feel like if a cop took the crazed guy with the knife and beat the crap out of him, it would get less press than if they tasered him.

[Dustdevil]

The taser's gotten such a bad reputation that I sometimes feel like if a cop took the crazed guy with the knife and beat the crap out of him, it would get less press than if they tasered him.

Excellent observation, and so very true. The whole purpose of the Taser was to effect rapid and safe apprehensions with minimal risk to all parties involved, including the arrestee. It does a great job of that. But the liberal, bleeding-heart a-holes out there who don't like how it "looks" keep whining about it regardless, threatening its future. Of course, if they lose the Taser, it will be back to beating the fark out of people and choking them out, which the libs won't like either, so there is no win here.

[BushyFromOz]

Excellent observation, and so very true. The whole purpose of the Taser was to effect rapid and safe apprehensions with minimal risk to all parties involved, including the arrestee. It does a great job of that. But the liberal, bleeding-heart a-holes out there who don't like how it "looks" keep whining about it regardless, threatening its future. Of course, if they lose the Taser, it will be back to beating the fark out of people and choking them out, which the libs won't like either, so there is no win here.

There was a case not 3 weeks ago here where some [police shot a crazed 15 y/o who was threatening them with some knives. Given the option of shooting or getting in close with a batton, they shot him (capsicum spray did not work on this nut case) Of course the arm chair generals out there were very quick to say that tasers are not the answer "police training is", they were branded trigger happy and everything else under the sun. Was even said that tasers kill almost as many people as fire arms.

I know which one id rather get shot with.

[WolfmanHarris]

Now I think the Cops have some responsibility on this one. I don't know if the taser should replace all force including manhandling the patient from their car to the squad, but there's more than one video online of the taser being used in lieu of any force.