Ever Carry a Gun on the Ambulance ?

[Fox800]

If you get to a point where you feel you need a vest and request more training, chances are youll be sued for abandonment once the scene is deemed safe because you refused to return untill your trained. How long have you even been in EMS?

What the hell are you trying to say? That we would leave a scene until our superiors trained us better? Sense...your post makes none. Who were you directing your post at?

[Fox800]

we are all better off reviewing past mistakes of ourselves and others than running around in a vest thinking it's going to save us. Every medic I've worked with or around who wears a vest has, either through attitude or plain bravado, consistently been far more likely to find him/herself in a dangerous situation than the next medic. Coincidence? Not likely. More often than not it becomes a false sense of security.

Also fail. By your logic, do you think we get a false sense of security by wearing gloves, reflective traffic vests, or extrication jumpsuits/bunker gear? If anything, donning my vest reminds me to be even more careful.

[Timmy]

All I can say is,

If I needed a gun or vest to enter a scene or to feel safe then I’m finding another job. I’m not putting my life in danger or potentially in danger from gunfire to help others.

[Capman]

Let's not split hairs here. While New York City may have more of them, a homicidal psyche patient is no more dangerous in New York City than in Northern Maine. In the case where you have to have this person placed in protective custody, the police officer accompanying is the only one authorized to carry a sidearm. No paramedic or EMT (even if your other job is a police officer) is allowed to carry or conceal a sidearm on the ambulance if they are on duty as an EMS provider. Nor does our company allow them to be carried or concealed while in the station.

As for the bad neighborhoods... You want to pack??? What are you going to do, get in a gang war with the local thugs and gangbangers? Flash your piece so they wont mess with you? Maybe stuff a triangular bandage in your back pocket and flash your colors??? I don't get it. Leave scene safety to the police.

[toutdoors]

The vest is not a stupid idea by any means. While working fire one day, we go to an unconscious party call. Upon arrival, we have a code, as usual, the family member is upset. We begin to work the code, and next thing you know, the code is abandoned, and we are in a free for all with the husband. He went completely nuts, first he is freaking out asking to help with his wife, as we begin our job, he flips. Did we do a bad job of scene sizeup? No, it was no different than any of the other codes we went on such as nervous/emotionally distraught family member standing there watching a loved one die, but something in this guy just bust loose, and he took his aggression out on us. PD was on scene very shortly because they were already enroute, but we never had time to hit our emergency button on the dang radio neither. Thankfully the mike got keyed up in the scuffle, and the dispatcher advised PD to step it up.

This was a real eye opener. Would a vest have helped us out? Not that much in this case, he did get a couple lucky hits and kicks in, but no broken ribs by anyone; but if he had pulled a gun, or a knife, and the vest would (should) have been the same style to protect against penetration, then it may have been a life saver. I have been to shootings, stabbings and violent assualts in some dive bars, a vest would make me feel better; not safer. I think that by putting the vest on, it reminds you just how dangerous your job can be.

As for carrying guns in the rig? I would say that during periods of civil unrest it is prudent to have some sort of added security with you, a police officer would be my choice. I have the training from my military days for self defense and the use of deadly force. With that being said, I will not shoot for your leg or the arm holding the weapon; I will aim center mass and fire. I also believe in the "bargain shopper attitude"; two for the price of one. You need one shot, you get two.

I can understand that there may be times that are incredibly rare and extreme where the presence of a weapon on an EMS rig is warranted. Thankfully it seems that these times seem to be very few and far between. I also understand, and actually more freely accept the idea that there are some areas that a weapon would be beneficial to the protection of the medic and possibly patient in the far remote stretches of wilderness that some of our collegues find themselves working. The bear, mountain lion encounters I can understand, but then again you don't have to be able to outrun the bear, just the other guy. All kidding aside, I don't see it as an everyday occurance where a deadly weapon would be needed to be carried, not today anyway.

[Richard B the EMT]

Even before the FDNY started issuing Soft Body Armour to members, and getting notation to personal files for those who declined it, numerous members of the service were getting vests on their own.

Scene safety? As mentioned in numerous posting in this string, a scene can go down hill in a split second.

You start treating a gang banger who isn't dressed to look like one, say a Crip at a wedding, in his rented, or owned, tuxedo, who was recognized by a Blood as being a Crip, and shot by the Blood. You have no knowledge it's a gang war scene, just know it is a shooting.

You treat while packaging, and while transporting to the ambulance, that Blood, or another Blood, takes exception you're attempting to save the Crip's life, and suddenly, you're under sniper fire. The target is your patient, but so what if they shoot everyone within a city block of the patient?

That is a scenario, not an actual call, but it might happen in reality, or has happened at some time and place I have not heard about, not just on "Turd Watch".

PS, I carry an "over the uniform" type vest, donned when I have some dispatch information it might be needed. Yes, I know there are some in this forum who will state, and probably correctly so, if you have one, use it at all times.

PPS, The last shootout between Crips and Bloods I worked, all 6 of those shot, including the one who died on the scene, none were "bangers". Horrible ending to a block party at the public housing project. I have no idea if the shooters from either gang ever were jailed, or even indited.

[tridget]

alabama against the rules to, i personally dont..... i run a small town ambulance service, sometimes we use the police officers as drivers on call in trucks, but they leave their guns in the patrol car.

[firedoc5]

We have always been told to make sure a scene is secure. Sometimes you have to settle for a scene being as secure as it can be. You always have the possibility of being at a scene that still has inherent dangers.

[Christopher.Collins]

What the hell are you trying to say? That we would leave a scene until our superiors trained us better? Sense...your post makes none. Who were you directing your post at?

Sorry Fox, that was directed towards someone, I had forgot to quote them on it and after reading what I said it wasnt worded well. Just a sarcastic remark is all it was.

[akflightmedic]

You always have the possibility of being at a scene that still has inherent dangers.

Name one scene that doesn't have inherent dangers.

EVERY scene has some danger, no matter how small or insignificant it may be, there is a level of danger at every scene.