Ever Carry a Gun on the Ambulance ?

[Fox800]

Unless you have the desire to be arrest for possession of a firearm, wish to have a criminal record linger around you for the rest of your miserable life and never want to work in any form of healthcare related industry again then go right ahead lol

I'm sure you have a different spin being in a country with draconian gun control laws.

Do I carry on the box? No.

Do I wish that I could carry concealed? Yes.

However, my job takes me many places where I cannot carry anyways under a concealed handgun license even IF my agency allowed it: schools, bars, jails, hospitals, churches, courts, etc. Even if my employer allowed it, I'd still be committing a felony by carrying there.

In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, MANY EMS providers that traveled to LA to help out were armed. Law and order didn't exist in some areas for a significant length of time, you were on your own.

I'd like to see a bigger emphasis on defensive tactics, self-defense, and the opportunity to be certified to carry OC. Yes we need to wait for police, but they won't be there 100% of the time when you need them, and you won't always be able to predict when you need them before all hell breaks loose. Sometimes you're just on your own.

[Fox800]

And I would rather be a live "ex-medic", than a "dead medic".

You can find another job. Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

[crotchitymedic1986]

amen, and you know they do make fannypacks that you can carry your gun in. Very secure, looks like a regular pouch (as the gun is velcroed to the back of the pack - up against your body).

And I had forgotten about Katrina -- there is no way I would have been in that area without a gun.

[BushyFromOz]

Unless you have the desire to be arrest for possession of a firearm' date=' wish to have a criminal record linger around you for the rest of your miserable life and never want to work in any form of healthcare related industry again then go right ahead lol[/quote']

I'm sure you have a different spin being in a country with draconian gun control laws.

Thanks

Our "draconian" gun laws have left us with a much lower firearm death rate per head of population then yours, you wouldn't believe it but things are actually different outside of the US :?

[Fox800]

Wait...you mean that...things outside the US are different? You just blew my mind!

The U.S. tops Aus in firearms deaths, yes. You are comparing a nation of 20.4 million with restrictive firearms laws to one with 301.3 million people with relatively lax firearms laws (excluding areas like Chicago, NYC, New York, New Jersey, Washington D.C....places that deny their citizens the means to defend themselves)

Let's take a look at this: http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi115.html published by the Australian government that compares violent crime rates in Australia to the UK, Canada, and the US from 1962-2004. Which country has had the lowest per capita instances of violent crime since 1995?

[rat115]

The service I work with doesn't allow firearms. I don't feel that they are needed most of the time. If they are needed, I've normally got LEO either there or on the way.

To add to that, I'm trained in martial arts. I can defend myself if needed, but can normally talk through a situation. I've been known to guilt trip drunks who were getting nasty with the guys on the service and get them to agree to treatment & transport. It's just watching the person and knowing when and how to back off.

[Lone Star]

Having worked unarmed in some of the roughest parts of Detroit, one learns that the easiest way to avoid 'problems' is by treating your patients with the respect they deserve. I may not like what they've done, what they do for a living, etc; but even the lowliest 'dirtbag' deserves respect accorded to just being human. We are NOT there to judge!

When I was in Detroit, there was another private service that had a reputation of driving around the more 'impoverished' areas of the city and acting like complete asses. They would ride up on a car and 'light 'em up', just to see the people in the car 'come unglued'.

One night they were conducting 'business as usual, and got posted in Highland Park (outside the same station I was at), when their rig had 5 rounds from a shotgun go through the patient compartment. Our rig was untouched.

I've had my share of the violent psych patients as well, and strangely enough, I've never had any 'real problems' from them.

I'm not 'anti gun', in fact I have a concealed pistol license, and frequently carry a weapon. The only time I can see the need to carry a weapon on duty is if you're in security, working for an armored car service, or law enforcement. We're not cops, and allowing EMS to carry a weapon on duty would only encourage alot of the whackers that are so prevalent in our profession to suffer from what I call the 'Blue Knight Syndrome'.

Allowing EMS to carry a weapon on duty would also be inviting additional 'problems' from some of the people we're supposed to be helping. Picture if you will, responding to a drug overdose call. Unknown to you, its also a 'crack house', or better yet....a clandestine lab.

Merely showing up with a weapon (either concealed, or in plain view), could cause the very people we're there to help to think that they're being raided by law enforcement. Ditto for the MVA patient who's just caused a drunk driving accident. This is one reason I'm against EMS having badges as well......

[Fox800]

I've heard the "EMS shouldn't wear badges because we get mistaken for cops" line over and over. Can anyone actually present a case of a paramedic or EMT being assaulted because of this misidentification? A badge can be a professional looking component of your uniform if you work for a government agency.

And re: whackers and blue knight syndrome, it's a good thing that the whackerdom seems to be headquarted in New Jersey/New England, where carry permits are ridiculously hard (or impossible) to get.

Carrying a pistol in the open while working EMS is a whole 'nother can of worms. I was referring to personnel carrying concealed (very concealed!)

[tniuqs]

I have carried a weapon on an ambulance.

There are times and situations where it is warranted.

Working in the remote Arctic, it is a survival tool should you find yourself stranded which was easy to do on some of those long out of the way calls.

After Hurricane Katrina and during Rita, again it was a survival tool and was necessary.

There have been several other natural disasters where weapons would be nice to have and very much necessary. I have seen others carry as well during these times.

Again, like any medical call, there are too many variables to say whether something is black or white, right or wrong 100% of the time. It is all dependent on the situation, however some situations you can enter with the knowledge obtained from past situations and prepare yourself adequately.

Great topic!

I was going to get ballist myself then I saw this post ... rock_shoes making blanket statements are folly, thank you AK, for saving an internet life.

SAR work I carry, Polar Bears, Grizzlys, Black Bears and Cougars do not require a silly ass pistol you need a cannon, ever work extreme remote or at a forest fire ? .... I was at Katrina as well but was not permitted.

Ever worked in a northern reserve when RCMP are 50 kms away ... hey sometimes I wish could shoot back, as for those that have been shot at or walk across a kill site have kinda different perspective, it kinda makes it clear who and who not been shot at.

I carry rubber too as I would rather haze the bears, than shoot them, but sometimes that too can causes a charge ... then you knees knock together big time.

[Timmy]

Wait...you mean that...things outside the US are different? You just blew my mind!

The U.S. tops Aus in firearms deaths, yes. You are comparing a nation of 20.4 million with restrictive firearms laws to one with 301.3 million people with relatively lax firearms laws (excluding areas like Chicago, NYC, New York, New Jersey, Washington D.C....places that deny their citizens the means to defend themselves)

Let's take a look at this: http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi115.html published by the Australian government that compares violent crime rates in Australia to the UK, Canada, and the US from 1962-2004. Which country has had the lowest per capita instances of violent crime since 1995?

Are you serious man? Were in that document does it entail anything about firearms? From what I gather it includes data from violent attacks i.e. assaults, some kid stole grandma’s handbag ect. There is no mention in regards to firearms at all, nor does it specially depict anything remotely close to resembling a firearm apart from homicide which you don’t necessary need a firearm to be an offender. Within that document it also states that the rates are not necessarily accurate.

You’ll find that Australia has draconian firearm laws for a reason, we have strict licensing and storage laws - not everyone walks around with a weapon. While I take into account your reference to population I think you’ll still find Australia has reasonably low incidences relating to firearms. I’m not taking into consideration incidences relating to drunken pub/club brawls ect. While we still have some gang violence going around shooting people it’s really not all that common.

You guys are always rambling on about how the public don’t respect EMS over there, if you start carrying firearms do you think you’ll be winning any popularity contests any time soon? Respect from the public must be gained by displaying professional and trustworthy behaviour, this is why the Australian public voted EMS as one of the most trusted professions ever, once you start carrying firearms around people will become intimidated and if a paramedic shot a patient, how many people would feel comftable calling for help, let alone the beating you guys will have from the media. If you guys have problems with the public harassing EMS or bashing your medics then you need to looking into ways to deal with this, if its not a safe situation to be in then move away.

Oh and another thing, when you make reference to whackers lighting up people, wearing badges, driving erratically, wearing radios and papers and the lists growns on and on – how can you possibly trust these people to carry a firearm? Wont they just display the gun and rome around acting like try hard cops provoking the situation so they actually get to shot people?

I really dislike guns so I may be biast and I have no idea what’s it’s like in the US but really, paramedics carrying guns? Its insane.