EMTs are now authorized to obtain blood samples on DWI stops

[VentMedic]

Thirdly, this bill seems written poorly with little research and planning. The bill leaves out the Licensed Paramedic as someone who is required to perform these draws, and as minute and ridiculous as this third point is, it does raise the question on how much research was done prior to this bill being submitted. I understand the social dilemma that DUI has become these days, but without effective punishment it is going to continue. Quoted from a previous post

Again, politicians did little research which is par for the course. I'll bet this bill won't pass muster in court. If it does, then I fear that other states will follow. Slippery slope if you ask me.

It would be cheaper if they trained LEO's to do this.

All they did was modify the orginal law already in effect for many years. They did not exclude EMT-Ps. EMT-I and EMT-Ps are the only EMS providers listed along with clinical technicians, nurses and doctors. All the bill does is state who CAN draw blood and a limited liability clause. If this hadn't been a news story with the word "EMT" in it, it probably wouldn't have been given another thought.

In a previous post I linked both the original and the proposed revision.

Yes it would be better if they just trained LEOs (and they do) since they require well over 100 sticks. Compared to the 5 which some Paramedic schools require, they would be the better trained professional to draw blood.

And, if you do not receive the additional training for blood alcohol drawing, you won't be doing it anyway. Your company may not want you to do it. EMT-Is and EMT-Ps have just been added to the list of providers that can draw. It doesn't mean you will be drawing.

[Asysin2leads]

The IV's were done for medical reasons. The ED blood draws were done for medical reasons. The Pt's gave consent for draws! So how is that unethical? :roll:

As a paramedic, I will only do an invasive procedure and risk giving a patient an infection in a less than sterile area because it is medically necessary to do so. If they don't need an IV, I'm not drawing blood, and unless the DWI is also suffering an asthma or heart attack, the reasons for doing an IV in the field become fairly narrow. If you want to pay me an extra couple of G's a year and call me law enforcement, and as part of my duties say that doing certain procedures is necessary to maintain good law and order, go ahead. I'm not going to give someone a staph infection for the purposes of evidence. No way, Jose.

[CTXMEDIC]

so how 'sterile' is the back of your truck? i think im getting a wiff of 'whine' from some of you guys. "I dont wanna play cop, Boo, Hoo". Nobodys asking you to 'enforce the law'. I take it none of you have ever been to court on a DUI case before either. Just transporting a DUI driver can land you in court, as it did me. the injured passenger was suing the driver but whatever. my ONLY beef with this is being called to the scene of a non-injury DUI stop for the sole purpose of drawing blood. Im not in the habit of transmitting infections to my patients regardless of the environment i stick them in. i routinely draw blood from cardiac patients, some trauma patients and others. Big deal. its part of the job. the coppers take DUI suspects to the hospital for a forced draw so whats the difference if we do it? oh, forgot, we need to be in a sterile surgical suite in gowns and sterile fields... :roll:

[Asysin2leads]

so how 'sterile' is the back of your truck? i think im getting a wiff of 'whine' from some of you guys. "I dont wanna play cop, Boo, Hoo". Nobodys asking you to 'enforce the law'. I take it none of you have ever been to court on a DUI case before either. Just transporting a DUI driver can land you in court, as it did me. the injured passenger was suing the driver but whatever. my ONLY beef with this is being called to the scene of a non-injury DUI stop for the sole purpose of drawing blood. Im not in the habit of transmitting infections to my patients regardless of the environment i stick them in. i routinely draw blood from cardiac patients, some trauma patients and others. Big deal. its part of the job. the coppers take DUI suspects to the hospital for a forced draw so whats the difference if we do it? oh, forgot, we need to be in a sterile surgical suite in gowns and sterile fields... :roll:

No, just some of us take that whole doing what is in the best interest of the patient seriously. No one is in the habit of transmitting infections, but everytime you start and IV or draw blood, especially in the field you do increase that risk, and to do so unnecesarily is in my mind, unethical. Drawing blood for a cardiac patient is so that they can get reperfusion therapy quicker if necessary, and on traumas... ummmm.... so... we can make it look like were doing something, I guess? There is a world of difference between doing that in the interest of the patient's health and in the interest of making a collar stick. And BTW, I've testified in DUI, assaults, arsons, and murder trials. At no time was I asked to collect evidence in any of those.

[CTXMEDIC]

just some of us take that whole doing what is in the best interest of the patient seriously. No one is in the habit of transmitting infections, but everytime you start and IV or draw blood, especially in the field you do increase that risk

So the nurses that do blood draws for DUI samples dont have the patients best interest in mind? and somehow the ER is more sterile than the back of my truck? tell me youre kidding.

[Asysin2leads]

So the nurses that do blood draws for DUI samples dont have the patients best interest in mind? and somehow the ER is more sterile than the back of my truck? tell me youre kidding.

I don't know how nurses and physicians do blood draws given the code of ethics health professionals are supposed to follow. I really don't. A lot of things in medicine don't make sense. But the thing about ethics is that, just as your mother probably told you, it doesn't matter what everyone else is doing. You feel one way. I feel another. I'm giving my opinion about it. IMHO, given the code of ethics that paramedics are held too, doing a blood draw on a patient who otherwise would not need it for the sole purpose of evidence collection to prosecute a crime can not be justified, particularly because they can't make informed consent in that situation if they are intoxicated. As it is currently written, if someone can't make informed consent, then the provider has to make the best judgment based on the individual's health need, and prosecution of a crime is not a health need. Someone doesn't get their arm in a splint because they want to impress their friends, and by the same token, they don't get a blood draw because the cops want some evidence.

[CTXMEDIC]

First, do no harm.

Im not 'harming' a guy that i take blood from for a DUI conviction. look at it this way. if the guy is drunk, your blood draw, in conjunction with the cop arresting him, may have just saved the drunks or someone elses life. if drawing some blood from a guy will save the lives of myself or someone else, i say, "Roll up your sleeve". In my state we have an implied consent law. by virtue of you driving on our roads, you are saying that you will willingly submit to a breath or blood test for purposes of testing for alcohol. thats the law.

[Asysin2leads]

First, do no harm.

Im not 'harming' a guy that i take blood from for a DUI conviction. look at it this way. if the guy is drunk, your blood draw, in conjunction with the cop arresting him, may have just saved the drunks or someone elses life. if drawing some blood from a guy will save the lives of myself or someone else, i say, "Roll up your sleeve". In my state we have an implied consent law. by virtue of you driving on our roads, you are saying that you will willingly submit to a breath or blood test for purposes of testing for alcohol. thats the law.

Never said anyone was harming him. I said it was an invasive procedure done for purposes other than the patient's health needs, which, IMHO, is not something we should be doing.

[CTXMEDIC]

Never said anyone was harming him. I said it was an invasive procedure done for purposes other than the patient's health needs, which, IMHO, is not something we should be doing.

so youre against abortion, lethal injection, liposuction, cosmetic surgery, skin grafts, life support and drug testing olympians as well. thank god all your patients are 'sick'.

[akflightmedic]

I do not think any of those procedures are within his scope of practice.

It seems to me he is opposed to actually doing the invasive procedure he is trained to do when it goes against his ethics.

Huge difference and your examples are not relevant, thus should not be compared.