Another Ethical Question

[fiznat]

I still wouldn't turn him in. What the guy does on his own time is his own business as far as I am concerned. If he were high at work that is something else, but this is his private life and I personally believe that it is not my place to butt in.

Furthermore, I think it would do EMS a disservice if it was believed that we were not only out to provide medical care, but to provide "moral policing" of the people we find. ...Even if we only police other healthcare workers under the auspices that we are securing our profession, what message does that send to the public? We only care about the welfare of our own? Our ethics only apply to some people and not others? Nah. In my opinion this is not only faulty logic, but ill advised.

[ccmedoc]

That is your opinion, and I respect that. I don't believe my logic is faulty..That is my opinion.

I don't think I would turn him in either. If I knew him, I would definitely have a talk with him though...

One question. If the public believes we may be policing them, or our own profession under the auspices of professional remediation, they lose confidence or faith in us as medical providers. Now, if they find out we knew the doc was there and did nothing, does this send a better message? In my opinion that is a stronger message that we only care for our own. Especially if the girl was not medical. Is this faulty logic?

Like I said I would not turn him in, in this scenario. I have a fair amount of loyalty to my profession and my coworkers.. 8)

[akflightmedic]

Another professional issue with possible repercussions is that he should not be doing cpr, or other interventions altered. Whether at the party or at the hospital. This is negligent.

If you were drunk at a party, say on outskirts of town, and one of your party goers fell over in cardiac arrest, and YOU were the only medically trained person there, would you withhold CPR?

Is something better than nothing?

I can answer my own question honestly. I have done CPR drunk. Was this wrong? If your answer to this is yes, do you wish to ask the guy who survived after the medics arrived and converted him to a perfusing rhythm with one shock?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Too many variables to say it is black or white.

[ccmedoc]

Yeah.. I just put that out there for discussion. There is no black and white answer. It may depend on the outcome. If the guy lives and no problem, your the 'life' of the party.

But if the guy doesn't make it, you may be looking for counsel..

I don't think anyone can answer until it is in their face. I can't give a definite answer for myself as I have never been in that situation.

I think the questions need to be ask though. It makes for good discussion.

[akflightmedic]

How does one become "more dead"?

I would love to be the one on trial for a case where CPR was performed and opposing council states the CPR caused it.

[crotchitymedic1986]

ccmedoc, i understand where you are coming from, but do you not believe we have an obligation to police ourselves ? Isnt that what professionals do ? If you had a medic in your service who obviously did not know how to pace a patient, would you let it go, or make sure he got taught how to pace (whether you did it yourself or through a supervisor) ? Is that not policing our coworkers ? Once this guy is busted with illegal drugs, and it becomes public knowlege, what kind of reputation do you think your service will have ? If he showed up for work high, and crashed the truck, would you not feel guilt for not preventing the inevitable ?

[HellsBells]

ccmedoc, i understand where you are coming from, but do you not believe we have an obligation to police ourselves ? Isnt that what professionals do ? If you had a medic in your service who obviously did not know how to pace a patient, would you let it go, or make sure he got taught how to pace (whether you did it yourself or through a supervisor

Um, no. Lawyers are professionals, they do more blow then anyone and don't tell on each other.

[scubanurse]

I would probably confront the doc if I had a private moment with him and let him know that I saw him with powder (I try not to assume all white powder is coke as my little cousin often attempts to snort powdered sugar.... she thinks its cool :roll: ) and see if he admitted anything to me and help him out. If he refused and I strongly thought he was using, I would talk to my supervisor about what I saw since they have more experience in handling things and work with them to follow any procedure/policy in place....same would go for a co-worker.

[Quakefire]

If the Dr. attempted to provide medical care to the patient, then he needs to be reported, just as if a surgeon showed up smashed. In your trip sheet do you not have to report that CPR was in progress when you arrived? Its one thing to see him in the living room with a 20 rolled in his nose and reporting him, its quite another if hes providing care

[akflightmedic]

If the Dr. attempted to provide medical care to the patient, then he needs to be reported, just as if a surgeon showed up smashed. In your trip sheet do you not have to report that CPR was in progress when you arrived? Its one thing to see him in the living room with a 20 rolled in his nose and reporting him, its quite another if hes providing care

All my reports always said "Bystander CPR" or "Pre arrival CPR" in progress.

Never inserted a name or needed to, I believe you are taught that in EMT schools as well.