Basics Doing Advanced Patient Care - Good Or Bad?

[Quakefire]

Personally as a PCP I would like IV access and a combitube or other airway option just because i'm looking at being employed in a rural service which means some long transport times

[mobey]

Personally as a PCP I would like IV access and a combitube or other airway option just because i'm looking at being employed in a rural service which means some long transport times

Dammit Quake.... I am trying to clear up a spot on our roster for ya here in Ab! AND we can do all that fun stuff!!

Seriously though (Off topic) the ICP is not alot of new info...... I recommend it 100%.

Oh how I miss my remote service.... I was 2.5hrs from a major hospital, yup you do feel pretty helpless at the Bls level, but then again you gotta know someone is gonna die because you did not further you education.

(Generic "You" BTW)

[spenac]

Dammit Quake.... I am trying to clear up a spot on our roster for ya here in Ab! AND we can do all that fun stuff!!

Seriously though (Off topic) the ICP is not alot of new info...... I recommend it 100%.

Oh how I miss my remote service.... I was 2.5hrs from a major hospital, yup you do feel pretty helpless at the Bls level, but then again you gotta know someone is gonna die because you did not further you education.

(Generic "You" BTW)

Very true. But when you become advanced it is cool that you actually get to see the meds solve the patients problems. Of course it sucs when you see that they didn't work. But hey at least you got to see what works and what don't.

I still say if you want advanced skills become an advanced provider.

[crotchitymedic1986]

Sounds like the typical EMS attitude. We want to do more "stuff" but dont want to do the necessary training (lazy). Paramedics want to do RSI and thrombolytics (without showing proficiency in inubation or the ability to read a 12Lead). EMTBs complete their "first-aid" training, and then think they should be able to start IVs and push meds. There should only be three levels of EMS certification:

EMT I

Paramedic

Advanced Paramedic (flightmedic or MICU like training), would be allowed to do RSI and push more meds.

[Dustdevil]

There should only be three levels of EMS certification:

EMT I

Paramedic

Advanced Paramedic (flightmedic or MICU like training), would be allowed to do RSI and push more meds.

Make that one. Paramedic. Period. Everything else is a First Responder, licensed/certified by a completely different certifying board. That way, we sweep the firemonkeys out to do their own thing, whatever that may be, and leave us to elevate ALS education standards beyond their reach. You wanna go learn "Advanced Paramedic" nonsense? Wonderful. But your licence/certification will still be the same as everyone else, just like an RN or MD.

[Christopher.Collins]

Make that one. Paramedic. Period. Everything else is a First Responder, licensed/certified by a completely different certifying board. That way, we sweep the firemonkeys out to do their own thing, whatever that may be, and leave us to elevate ALS education standards beyond their reach. You wanna go learn "Advanced Paramedic" nonsense? Wonderful. But your licence/certification will still be the same as everyone else, just like an RN or MD.

I agree with one level of paramedic.

But I dont understand how that would keep fire doing their thing? Sure you can elevate standards and education, and you can kick out people who "want" to be medics to become a firefighter or who appear to have that demanor... but regardless how would that erradicate fire from providing advanced medical care? We already know that there are plenty out there "willing" to further their "education" for the career that want... but some people are serious about it even if they are firefighters and if you start eliminating all firefighters from medic classes itll just make one big mess of biasedness. Im not saying your idea wouldnt work... just curious to hear more thoughts.

I also agree with your license/certification being the same. Im an EMT-B. I was once trained and certified to use combitube and though I am not anymore I was still an EMT-B. In a hospital setting I can be trained to perform EKGs and phlebotomy without certification... but Im still an EMT-B. Why? Because thoes things I may be able to do one place but not another. Being an EMT is more a pre-requisite than it is anything. Yes additional certifications may expand upon your knowledge and skill base, but that dosnt make you better than the next EMT.

[diazapam]

Yes I believe BASIC's should be allowed to do advanced skills such as IV's, EKG inturpitations, blood sugars and intubations, due to the fact that thes skills only require hours of training, and people will see ems as the stepping stone job it really is.

[Dustdevil]

Sorry for not making my point more clearly. I didn't mean to eliminate them by disallowing them. I meant to eliminate them practically by putting the educational standards out of their reach. In states where the Associates Degree paramedic is the entry level for ALS practice, you see very, very few FD run ambulances. The fire chiefs will simply give up EMS before they'll go for that. That leaves them as nothing more than BLS First Responders. And there is no reason that the Paramedic licensing board should even be involved in the regulation of BLS First Responders. Let the NREMT or the Red Cross do it.

It works in Canadia. It works in New Jersey. It can work anywhere.

[diazapam]

I don't believe educational standards are out of reach, for example I see your point with FD ambulances and chiefs not wanting to foot that extra educational bill, but many fire applicants are putting their self through medic school and getting those 2 year degrees in paramedicine, and fire science for entry level fire positions.

[Dustdevil]

I don't believe educational standards are out of reach, for example I see your point with FD ambulances and chiefs not wanting to foot that extra educational bill, but many fire applicants are putting their self through medic school and getting those 2 year degrees in paramedicine, and fire science for entry level fire positions.

I wouldn't say "many", if you are talking percentage wise. For every firemonkey wannabe who goes to a paramedic degree programme, there are thousands more who go to a 13 week cram course, and spend the rest of the time taking fire classes.

No matter how many do it, it will never be enough to staff a major city fire department. And the major cities are the big problem.