Basics Doing Advanced Patient Care - Good Or Bad?

[spenac]

Yes I believe BASIC's should be allowed to do advanced skills such as IV's, EKG inturpitations, blood sugars and intubations, due to the fact that thes skills only require hours of training, and people will see ems as the stepping stone job it really is.

Wow theres that bad word training. Not education as it takes education to knw how to do, why to do, what to expect, etc, etc etc. We need to stop the piece mill crap that is the current state of EMS.

I just noticed on the poll 3 people actually want to give the skills w/o the education. :shock:

[Dustdevil]

If someone is going to practise medicine on me, they had better have read the whole book, not just the fukking Cliff's Notes.

No tech school monkeys. I'll take my chances in a taxi.

[triemal04]

Worth repeating I suppose.

I don't see what the problem is with the country "going the other way" and only allowing uneducated and untrained providers to perform minimal interventions. Fact is, that's entirely appropriate. Just as the EMT-I (or whatever the hell it's called in various states) is an inappropriate thing to have. For instance, in Oregon it is possible to go from nobody to EMT-I (which has a huge scope of practice...not a lot less than a paramedic) with only 260 hours of education. Think that's appropriate? Think that's a proper education for all that they are now allowed? The fact that people are starting to wise up to that fact and remove EMT-I's is great.

If you are a basic and want to do more of those fun things you can't now then suck it up and go to paramedic school. Don't look for a short cut. As someone has already said, the proper education for even starting an IV in EMS is a paramedic's education.

Live with it.

And Dust...actually, in Oregon, where a degree is required for a paramedic, the majority of ambulances are run by fire departments. Take out the volunteer services and non-ALS services (and by non-ALS I mean without paramedics) and it's still the same. Couldn't tell you for sure, but I think that before an Associate's was required there where actually MORE private/third service ambulances than there are now. Said it before and I'll say it again: make the minimum for a paramedic a degree, and people will either fall into line or get out of the way. Win win either way.

[Christopher.Collins]

I gatcha Dust, thanks. I had an idea you were going that way but wasnt posative. I agree with diazapams comment in thoes regards also, that even with that some people will still pay. But I think I already answered that concern for myself. Yea that will happen, some would slip through the cracks, but not at a drastic level that it would keep fire based EMS in service. Since, well we're mostly blue collar people who dont have money coming out of our pores and living in a sh*tty economy. Overall I would think the people going for an AS as a paramedic would be a little more serious about the medical aspect.

I have nothing against FD doing EMS mostly under two conditions... the Medic/s are on the ambulance. None of this annual rotating truck-ambulance stuff. Do it like FDNY, same company but Fire is Fire and EMS is EMS. Can medics with rescue experience be benneficial in various situations? Yea. But show me how its so important for the guy pulling a victim out of a smoke charged warhouse near flashover to start an IV and push narcs. That wont matter untill the vic is out of the building... where, oh look at this whats that an ambulance! FD as first responders, Im all for it 100% if they know what they are doing. I once had a FF/MRT show a guy how to use an epi-pen, yea he did it backwards and I had to intervine while trying not to laugh. But an extra set of hands that knows what the patient needs when there is no available EMS backup is always helpful. The second condition is none of this endangering others by sending a whole battalion to one freakin fall from a standing position type call. I see it happen alot. Theres difference between manpower and overkill.

[Dustdevil]

Said it before and I'll say it again: make the minimum for a paramedic a degree, and people will either fall into line or get out of the way. Win win either way.

Plus 5! My point exactly.

I don't care if it's the FD, the PD, the hospital, the funeral home, or the National Guard providing EMS. All I care about is the quality of their educational preparation to do so.

[diazapam]

Hey Dust can you clarify the problem with big city FD"s?, are you talking about pay, or quality of EMS?, I live in Southern Cali all my life and I know at one time LAFD the city not the county had single role paramedics, but since then have crossed trained and only hire Firefighter/medics, as well as Santa Ana FD in orange County gave up the single role paramedic position as well. If these big city FD's are the problem I don't see any change in ems in the west coast at least regarding protocols and certs within these major metropolis departments when is change going to come? Again i apologize only know Southern Cali ems.

[triemal04]

If these big city FD's are the problem I don't see any change in ems in the west coast at least regarding protocols and certs within these major metropolis departments when is change going to come? Again i apologize only know Southern Cali ems.

Whoah now...unless you think that the west coast is ONLY southern Cali, you really need to check yourself. As well, don't lump Oregon (and Washington...those lazy bastards) in with ANY part of California when it comes to EMS. There is a vast difference in the educational standards, available treatments, use of OLMC and general quality of care from the southern end to the northern. Put simply, people outside your area are expected, and taught how to actually treat their pt's on their own.

[JPINFV]

Whoah now...unless you think that the west coast is ONLY southern Cali,

To be fair, though, Southern California is the only part that matters. It's just too bad that its EMS systems suck. 8) :twisted: 8)

[mobey]

Very true. But when you become advanced it is cool that you actually get to see the meds solve the patients problems. Of course it sucs when you see that they didn't work. But hey at least you got to see what works and what don't.

I still say if you want advanced skills become an advanced provider.

That should always be the ultimate goal, get the required hours for ACP school... then get at it!

[diazapam]

Whoah now...unless you think that the west coast is ONLY southern Cali, you really need to check yourself. As well, don't lump Oregon (and Washington...those lazy bastards) in with ANY part of California when it comes to EMS. There is a vast difference in the educational standards, available treatments, use of OLMC and general quality of care from the southern end to the northern. Put simply, people outside your area are expected, and taught how to actually treat their pt's on their own.

Again I apologize not too familiar with the pacific NW, How is the culture of the FD's up there, and what I mean by that is what is a one year probation like? with fire training and ems training combined.