Basics Doing Advanced Patient Care - Good Or Bad?

[chbare]

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

Your assessment is totally incorrect. A paramedic does not need a basic. No hate here; however, your argument is null and void. In all my years of ER and transport experience, I never needed a basic in order to complete my job. I have worked with many basics and have never had many problems, but to argue that your role somehow ensures that I never forget basic modalities is a rather inane way of thinking IMHO. Additionally, much of what I did in the ER started with basic modalities. I never needed a basic to tell me how to to CPR or how to achieve a good mask seal and utilise airway adjuncts properly.

Regarding knowing the physiology of modalities. The only cliche I can think of is "you don't know what you don't know." Unfortunately, you completely invalidate any point you may have had by talking about your on the job education. Regarding intubation; have you seen improvement in patient morbidity and mortality with patients intubated by basics? You bring this topic up, I think its fair game. Regarding your claims of being a perfusionist; if I am not mistaken, a four year degree is the entry level educational qualification, not simple OJT with a good mentor. Also, I believe one of the board exams a perfusionist must pass is a basic science examination covering topics that include advanced physiological concepts. If you are in fact a perfusionist, I would have extreme difficulty believing that you would actually take such a cavalier attitude toward the process of formal education.

Do not take my comments as basic hating. You have presented opinions and are being challenged.

Take care,

chbare.

Edit: "any" to "many."

Edited June 22, 2010 by chbare

[fiznat]

just

let

it

die

Edited June 22, 2010 by fiznat

[EMS49393]

There is a huge difference between education and training. I have the knowledge to know why, how, and when because I went through anatomy and physiology, chemistry, biology, mathematics, and all the paramedic didactic. I also got to sit through composition classes, sociology, psychology, and a host of other humanities during college. This was my education.

After my preliminary education, I began my training when I started my scenerio-based skills, clinical rotations, and ride time.

Now I attend continuing education often, skills refreshers often, and I read and research almost every day. I am continuing to further my education using the building blocks I was given in college.

You can train anyone to intubate, start an IV or an IO, or see a common rhythm - push this color medication box. Can you educate them as to why something should or should not be performed? Can you educate them as to why something is or is not happening to a patient?

I'll tell you what I tell every basic that wants to do a bunch of "cool skills..." You tell me everything I already know about what skill or medication you want, and you would have my blessing to do it or give it to your hearts content. Until then, it is what it is, and you are what you are, an EMT-Basic.

Incidentally, if a basic provider is able to bag a patient, especially in a code situation, then it is the paramedics job to obtain IV access first to facility rapid administration of medications in a hope to return circulation. So if I ask my EMT if they are able to adequately ventilate a patient and they respond "yes" then I am on to my IV or cardiac interventions. Don't believe me? Check the new ACLS algorithms. Of course if they say they can and they are lying to me it will be the last time I every ask them anything, and the last time they are ever on my ambulance.

[mobey]

"Hello ma'am, can you take a deep breth?"

LOC ABC's done!

Head to toe takes about 60 sec.

Just because I don't check for pelvic stability on a medical patient, does not mean I forget the basics.....

One thing EMT's don't seem to understand is that Paramedics do not follow flowcharts. What they see us do does not seem "complete" to them because we assess with a purpose, not repetition.

[BushyFromOz]

I just want to clarify that without the BASICS, Paramedics can not do their jobs. It doesn't matter that you are a Paramedic if you if the basics skills are not performed.

-10 for the most ignorant post in a long time.

You have completely missed the point, i wont point it out to you either.

God, I'm sick of this, why did i open this thread!

[JPINFV]

One thing EMT's don't seem to understand is that Paramedics do not follow flowcharts. What they see us do does not seem "complete" to them because we assess with a purpose, not repetition.

Oh, crap... I didn't realize that I was supposed to follow a flow chart as an EMT-B. Opps.

[BushyFromOz]

Oh, crap... I didn't realize that I was supposed to follow a flow chart as an EMT-B. Opps.

Maybe you didn't read the flow chart on how to read flow charts??

[JPINFV]

Maybe you didn't read the flow chart on how to read flow charts??

[BushyFromOz]

I love it!

[Just Plain Ruff]

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

Your assessment is totally incorrect. A paramedic does not need a basic. No hate here; however, your argument is null and void. In all my years of ER and transport experience, I never needed a basic in order to complete my job. I have worked with many basics and have never had many problems, but to argue that your role somehow ensures that I never forget basic modalities is a rather inane way of thinking IMHO. Additionally, much of what I did in the ER started with basic modalities. I never needed a basic to tell me how to to CPR or how to achieve a good mask seal and utilise airway adjuncts properly.

Regarding knowing the physiology of modalities. The only cliche I can think of is "you don't know what you don't know." Unfortunately, you completely invalidate any point you may have had by talking about your on the job education. Regarding intubation; have you seen improvement in patient morbidity and mortality with patients intubated by basics? You bring this topic up, I think its fair game. Regarding your claims of being a perfusionist; if I am not mistaken, a four year degree is the entry level educational qualification, not simple OJT with a good mentor. Also, I believe one of the board exams a perfusionist must pass is a basic science examination covering topics that include advanced physiological concepts. If you are in fact a perfusionist, I would have extreme difficulty believing that you would actually take such a cavalier attitude toward the process of formal education.

Do not take my comments as basic hating. You have presented opinions and are being challenged.

Take care,

chbare.

Edit: "any" to "many."

Actually CH, you do indeed need a emt to help you complete your job. Remember the old adage "Paramedics Save patients, EMT's save paramedics" You never knew how true that was until this person came here telling us that without them there EMT's we paramedics couldn't do our jobs.

Good on ya Mate!