Carrying the "Everybody feels good" mentality too

[akflightmedic]

Im loving these sensationalistic comments! 'barbarianism' 'visciousness'....lmfao.

Are you capable of doing more than laughing at it?

I have opened the door for the supporters to justify it and none have risen to the challenge. Tell me where you go when you hit your child? Tell me what you are thinking? Tell me how you are able to hit the child for misbehavior?

It is simply unfathomable to me, I have opened myself for all to see and for all to shred if they so desire.

Answer those questions, tell me how reacting with violence, and yes, "a swat" is violence, solves anything. We teach our kids not to hit but hen we hit them when they are wrong. We teach them to respect other people's boundaries yet we invade theirs.

Show me where there is any illogical thought processes with the above statements and I will refrain from the sensationalistic comments. Otherwise, until you disprove that striking someone is not one step above (or below) caveman status, my words stand true.

[mobey]

AK, sounds like we parent very much the same.

Very earlie in my children's life I started teaching them that bad choices have concequences. Alot of the time I let them choose thier concequence (they hate that).

Real life example: Out camping, my 5 year old jumps on her bed in our trailer. I tell her that is a bad choice and not to do it again. 10min later I catch her doing it again, she is told to choose a concequence... either no smores before bed or no bedtime book. She takes a few min to make her decision and goes to bed without a book.

The next day she reminds me how hard that choice was, and I tell her she did a good job at not crying for a book.

About a week later she wants a burger from McDonalds and I say no, she starts to throw a hissy fit and I remind her that bad choices have consequences and ask her if she wants to make a hard choice again. PROBLEM SOLVED.

Now anytime I want, I can lean down and whisper in her/thier ear "Bad choices have concequences" and they WILL stop the bad behavior.... no bruises, no tears, no pain, no guilt.

Obvioustly this is not something that happends overnight, this has taken alot of work to get to where we are as a family.... but I am very proud to say we are a functional family with well behaved kids (I have been verified lots on that) and we are completly violence free, I rarely even have to raise my voice.

As I said previously.... I was raised with a stern hand, and I feared my father till I was about 10 (then I fought back).

That is not something I choose for my kids.

[DwayneEMTP]

I think part of the issue arises from those that can't believe ak when he says he can't fathom hitting his children. I can understand that, it doesn't seem reasonable..until you've spent time with him.

Hopefully most know I’m not a hero worshiper, it’s not my way to stand up for someone based on personal feelings as opposed to doing my best to ‘be real’, but still, take what follows for what it’s worth to you.

I believe I’m as strong or stronger in behavioral principals than the average layman, but then I spent a couple of days with ak and his family. His children are all smart and fun, respectful, and polite. But what struck me most, and I mean this with the utmost sincerity, is that they always looked me in the face when talking. They had no fear of me, as an adult, nor as a stranger. They had no issues drawing boundaries between adult interactions and adult/children interactions, meaning they didn’t interrupt or demand attention, but when it was appropriate they loved being part of the attention.

I spent HOURS with his kids on my lap, talking, playing tic tac toe (grrrrr) and most of that time trying to figure out how I could send Dylan to live with them. They seemed to have every single tool necessary to control their own destiny when they become adults, and I admire that terribly.

But what’s most important is that he has a plan for raising his kids. When they go into a restaurant the first thing he does in his head, or at least I believe so, is decide “What issues might arise, and what will I do to correct them?” I can’t remember it being necessary, but what I do remember is that there were kids spanked in the same restaurant that day, with the main difference, it seemed to me, was that he watched and listened to his kids, he knew when they spoke, when they spilled, when they got bored, each of them, all the time.

The kids that were spanked or swatted ‘seemed’ to be attached to parents that didn’t see them until they needed discipline. It was as if the parents were burdened with their kids and their kids’ behavior was separate from theirs. With ak there was family behavior. He had failed if he’s allowed his children into situations where they didn’t know how to behave, and he chooses not to punish them for his failure. They are a family, proud or ashamed together, never allowing himself to be seprate of his kids’ behavior by blaming it on them. That is awesome to me. But it takes a lot of work, a lot of attention.

I once watched a Dr. try and dress him down in Kandahar. Within 10 minutes I simply wanted to drag the doc outside and beat the shit out of him, but without ever raising his voice, or being disrespectful ak resolved the issues, as best that I believe they could be resolved, with the doc appearing an overbearing idiot, as he was. He didn’t need to get mad, as he doesn’t allow lazy tools like that when it can be helped. He chooses smarter tools, tools that will lead to positive results whenever possible.

Ask him why he refused to hit his kids and he’ll tell you, SPECIFICALLY. Ask him what he’ll do instead and he’ll do likewise, with multiple options.

This isn’t about who’s wrong or right. This is about logic, intelligence, justifying your argument. Saying that a lack of spanking doesn’t work “because the newspaper says so” or that spanking does work “because I’ve seen it” just doesn’t hold water.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Mobey as well I applaud. Because he chooses not to spank? Not at all. Because he's chosen to use logical, intelligent, proven tools that require him to work 50 times harder to raise his kids than the majority of the spanking crowd I’ve been exposed to. When he tells his stories about how he’s adjusted his kids’ behavior, I don’t have to wonder for a second if he’s being honest or not, simply because the SCIENCE says that the situation should have played out exactly as he described it. For me, it’s that simple.

Most of my dislike for spanking came from animal training. People would justify hitting their dogs/horses, whatever, with the defense of "See, he stopped and went and lay down!" I'd I'd ask, "stopped what EXACTLY?" and they'd say, "Stopped (whatever)" And then I'd tell them, "You're right, he's stopped doing (whatever), but he's also stopped doing EVERYTHING else. He's stopped exploring, stopped being happy, stopped being curious, stopped wanting to please, stopped having the confidence that you will allow him to make mistakes in order to learn....Good for you."

If you have an educated, intelligent plan that incorporates spanking..good for you! I have no issues with it as long as fear is never a part of that plan, but how many have you actually seen that do? And how many have you actually seen that simply do it because it's easy? C'mon! Those of you that can spot an unspanked child at 100 yards should be able to answer this with no problem. That is my issue, not the tool, but the ignorance in it's application.

Dwayne

[reaper]

After 7 pages of the same arguments, have we came to the same conclusions? Everyone will parent a different way. Every child needs a different way of parenting.

I do believe in spanking, when it is needed. I also agree with teaching kids while they are young and instilling good moral values in your kids.

I have never had to lay a hand on my son. He was always a good kid growing up and sometimes the threat of a spanking would do the trick. My daughter was always one to push the limits on everything. She did get spanked when she was younger, but I have not had to lay a hand on her in years. She finally learned that I didn't play games.

I have seen some totally hands off parents that do make it work. But, I have seen way to many that the kids are out of control. I could never understand when my kids were younger that people would always compliment on how well behaved they were. Whether it was out in public or they spent the night at someones house. They were always complimented on their behavior. Then I started watching other peoples kids and could not believe some of the stuff I saw. Their were some kids that I wanted to spank!!

All we need to understand is that each child is different and each one needs a different style of parenting. I really do not care how you raise your kids. As long as you are being a parent to them, you are not abusing them and they are not abusing me! :shock: