DwayneEMTP Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 I agree that learning to raise children is a 'trial and error' exercise at best, but if the 'spare the rod and spoil the child' method didn't work, why can't you see that moving to the complete opposite end of the spectrum isn't working as well? This is the most inspiring thing I've heard you say in a along time. It seems obvious to me that the "no one loses" philosophy isn't "the" answer, but at least it's different from the obviously failed tools from the past. When something doesn't work, you have to change it, even if it's to take a shot in the dark and hope for new data. I think that's what's happened here. The theory was that if we didn't damage children's self esteem that they would grow up stronger and more confident, yet that doesn't appear to be the complete answer, so we now see the pendulum swinging back towards the middle of the spectrum. We explored the extreme right, and it didn't work as well as we'd like, so we swung all the way to the left and are finding that that isn't the answer either, as anything radical rarely is, so now we are swinging back towards the middle. The mistake I believe I see is that when the radical left isn't what we wanted people immediately want to go back to what they know, which is the failed tools from the past, because we're comfortable with what we know. I don't believe we have the right any longer to go to what is comfortable, we have to move towards what works, and we're making headway, it just takes time. I do have go laugh a little bit when you talk about the anti authority, anti conformity of this generation. I believe the 50's gave us rock and roll, the 60's the flower children and drug culture; I lived on a Hell's Angels commune for nearly three years in the 70's. At what point has this generation been more radical than those? I don't see it. Besides, there is a lot of good that came from those 'losers.' Things are different now. Not worse, and perhaps a little better, as we move to use our brain instead of a stick now when things go wrong. The stick has its place, but it's rare. CTXMedic, you say that we would have to build fewer prisons if people stopped raising kids that needed to be placed there. But until then, let's build more prisons. How's that working for you? At an alarming rate people are raising kids that end up in prison, and very often using the exact tactics you're so fond of. So how long before you stop screaming for 'people to do right' and accept that that isn't going to happen and go to plan B? The system we have now sucks...but it sucks less than the system we had before. And for now I'm going to get behind the ‘sucks less’ options every time whenever anyone tries to push for going back to the 'proven to suck more' options. Dwayne
CBEMT Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 And yeah, I got pretty pissed about the disrespect for CBEMT's children. That's just utter weak, ignorant cowardice. They started to flank me and on a hope and prayer took out three of their guys while reloading at the same time... then I took one to the head Mad I coulda been a little pansy and quit... I was 1 kid up against 4 frigging real life Marines but seriously, theres no fun in quitting... no matter how fu*%ed you are. Oh please, please let me write up your Medal of Honor nomination. :roll:
Eydawn Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 CB, you might want to attribute the above quote to Chris Collins, who actually typed it... the way you quoted Dwayne and then had a quote with no tag on it makes it seem like you're quoting Dwayne twice and the second one doesn't make a lotta sense. Wendy CO EMT-B
Lone Star Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 I'm just curious Lone Star, honestly, why do you have such a hang up about other people's kids? I mean, maybe we could agree for you to raise your kids the way you want them raised, other people can raise their children the way they want them raised, and we can all move on with out lives? Why do you have to be parent to everyone? I think you watch entirely too much TV, IMHO. Turn the set off, worry about your children, raise them right, and let the world go on. Stop with this obsession of yours to be disciplinarian dad to the entire planet. There's kids in the United States who act up. There's those that use foul language. There's ones that throw temper tantrums, there's ones that beat each other up, there's ones that get each other pregnant, and as much as you'd like to see it as an issue of "doing it the old fashioned way" or not, there's many different issues at play, none of which you have control over. So stop worrying about other people and start worrying about your own family. Because personally, if I had one problem with "today's kids" its that their asshole parents are more worried about "the community" and "society" and "his kids" and "her kids" and "that school" rather than worrying about to be the best parents they themselves can be. Why do I 'worry about it'? Well geez Mr. Cleaver, could it be that its because these are the FUTURE of our country? These are the same ones that are growing up and somehow becoming Senators and God forbid, PRESIDENT! If they can't cope with a parent telling them 'no', what are they going to do when an entire COUNTRY disagrees with them, or doesn't do what they're told? Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the entire generation is like that, but theres far more that ARE 'like that' than 'not like that'! If the kids we're raising today can't cope in 'regular everyday life', how in the hell are they going to cope once they're on their own?
Chief1C Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=904560 DALLAS — The coach of a Texas high school basketball team that beat another team 100-0 sent an e-mail to a newspaper saying he will not apologize "for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity." On its Web site last week, the Covenant School of Dallas, a private Christian school, posted a statement regretting the outcome of its Jan. 13 shutout win over Dallas Academy. "It is shameful and an embarrassment that this happened. This clearly does not reflect a Christlike and honorable approach to competition," said the statement, signed by Kyle Queal, head of school, and board chair Todd Doshier. Covenant coach Micah Grimes, who has been criticized for letting the game get so far out of hand, made it clear in the e-mail Sunday to The Dallas Morning News that he does not agree with his school's assessment. "In response to the statement posted on The Covenant School Web site, I do not agree with the apology or the notion that the Covenant School girls basketball team should feel embarrassed or ashamed," Grimes wrote in the e-mail, according to the newspaper. "We played the game as it was meant to be played. My values and my beliefs would not allow me to run up the score on any opponent, and it will not allow me to apologize for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity." A phone number for Grimes could not be located by The Associated Press. The Dallas Morning News said Grimes did not respond to their repeated e-mail requests for a telephone interview. Queal did not immediately return a phone message left at his home Sunday afternoon by the AP. There was no answer at a number listed for Doshier. A parent who attended the game said Covenant continued to make 3-pointers— even in the fourth quarter. She praised the Covenant players but said spectators and an assistant coach were cheering wildly as their team edged closer to 100 points. Covenant was up 59-0 at halftime. Dallas Academy has eight girls on its varsity team and about 20 girls in its high school. It is winless over the last four seasons. The academy boasts of its small class sizes and specializes in teaching students struggling with "learning differences," such as short attention spans or dyslexia. There is no mercy rule in girls basketball that shortens the game or permits the clock to continue running when scores become one-sided. There is, however, "a golden rule" that should have applied in this contest, said Edd Burleson, the director of the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools, said last week. Both schools are members of this association, which oversees private school athletics in Texas. The story has received national attention, and the Dallas Academy team has been recognized for refusing to give up during the lopsided contest.
Mateo_1387 Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the entire generation is like that, but theres far more that ARE 'like that' than 'not like that'! Where are you getting that from?
Asysin2leads Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Why do I 'worry about it'? Well geez Mr. Cleaver, could it be that its because these are the FUTURE of our country? These are the same ones that are growing up and somehow becoming Senators and God forbid, PRESIDENT! If they can't cope with a parent telling them 'no', what are they going to do when an entire COUNTRY disagrees with them, or doesn't do what they're told? Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the entire generation is like that, but theres far more that ARE 'like that' than 'not like that'! If the kids we're raising today can't cope in 'regular everyday life', how in the hell are they going to cope once they're on their own? When the entire country disagrees with them? Gee, we've never seen that before. Anyway, Lone Star, the kids you are talking about are not going to be president. They're not going to be senators. I'm really not sure where you have gotten this impression that ever single child in existence in this generation is somehow overly coddled. I assure if it makes you feel better there are hundreds of thousands of children growing up, right now, who have fairly miserable existences. I do think society is facing major issues with children today. For instance, I don't know whats up with those Bratz dolls, but unless you're a 43 year old man living in his parents basement, I think you should find them fairly despicable. I know I'll never let my daughter play with them, and for all intents and purposes my parents were permissive liberal scum. I turned out all right... relatively, and I think if I concentrate on my child, and you concentrate on yours, it won't really matter what the Oprah watching hands off parents of the rest of the world do.
Dustdevil Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Well... back to the topic. :? I'm trying not to get too macho about this, because everyone here who actually knows me knows that I am far from macho. But regardless of whether this could have been handled better, I don't think that it was the winning team responsible for doing it. I am surprised that nobody has asked why the losing coach did not throw in the towel. It was not the winning team's responsibility to handle the losing team's affairs. He was hired to coach HIS team, not other teams. Why didn't the losing coach ask his girls if they wanted to quit? Although it isn't written anywhere, I'm betting that, at some point, he did and the girls told him to get bent. And if that is the case, then they ARE winners! Now, if they were not given that option by their coach, and they never asked for it, then that's quite likely exactly the way they wanted it. But if the girls and the coach felt they should quit, they could have made something special out of this event. They could have forfeited at halftime, and then made a learning opportunity out of it, as well as making some new friends among the other team. Like Christopher implied about joining forces... they could have paired up with the winning team for some coaching. It's not like they are going to play each other again this year. Win-win. It's better than being so exhausted that you learn nothing but to stay on your feet. But in reality, I'm betting this game turned out exactly how the losing team wanted it to turn out. They fought until the end with everything they had, and went home with the pride in knowing they stayed til the end, against overwhelming odds. That makes them winners in my book. And I'm betting it makes them winners in their own mind to. Nobody wants to be patronised! If the winning team had tried to do so, it would have diminished their efforts and their lesson. Bullshyte on that. That is more unsportsmanlike than anything these girls did. Anyone who thinks the winners should have changed anything they did is wrong (unless, of course, they celebrated in an unsportsmanlike manner after the fact, of which there is no report).
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