Carrying the "Everybody feels good" mentality too

[Christopher.Collins]

Oh please, please let me write up your Medal of Honor nomination. :roll:

SAWEEET I knew someone would finally realize Im a hero!!!

No actually, I only threw that whole thing in there cuz Im not a quiter even if the odds arnt in my favor... its a rediculous story and I already knew that. I have a ton more... like the first time I played poker.

[reaper]

Well... back to the topic. :?

I'm trying not to get too macho about this, because everyone here who actually knows me knows that I am far from macho. But regardless of whether this could have been handled better, I don't think that it was the winning team responsible for doing it. I am surprised that nobody has asked why the losing coach did not throw in the towel. It was not the winning team's responsibility to handle the losing team's affairs. He was hired to coach HIS team, not other teams. Why didn't the losing coach ask his girls if they wanted to quit? Although it isn't written anywhere, I'm betting that, at some point, he did and the girls told him to get bent. And if that is the case, then they ARE winners!

Now, if they were not given that option by their coach, and they never asked for it, then that's quite likely exactly the way they wanted it. But if the girls and the coach felt they should quit, they could have made something special out of this event. They could have forfeited at halftime, and then made a learning opportunity out of it, as well as making some new friends among the other team. Like Christopher implied about joining forces... they could have paired up with the winning team for some coaching. It's not like they are going to play each other again this year. Win-win. It's better than being so exhausted that you learn nothing but to stay on your feet.

But in reality, I'm betting this game turned out exactly how the losing team wanted it to turn out. They fought until the end with everything they had, and went home with the pride in knowing they stayed til the end, against overwhelming odds. That makes them winners in my book. And I'm betting it makes them winners in their own mind to. Nobody wants to be patronised! If the winning team had tried to do so, it would have diminished their efforts and their lesson. Bullshyte on that. That is more unsportsmanlike than anything these girls did. Anyone who thinks the winners should have changed anything they did is wrong (unless, of course, they celebrated in an unsportsmanlike manner after the fact, of which there is no report).

Thank you Dust, You are the only one to answer the question of what lesson was learned here! I am still waiting for what lesson would have been learned by the winning team laying down or quiting?

[crotchitymedic1986]

I agree with you dust, except what lesson is learned by the losing team when the coach forfeits the game ? "Quit so you dont embarass yourself ?" The real answer is that this sport should have a rule like little league baseball/softball has that ends the game when you get too far behind. I do not fault the winninng coach for continuing to play, but according to the story that coach showed poor sportsmanship when his team scored.

[Dustdevil]

Agreed. I'm not really suggesting that they should have quit. I'm just saying that, if anyone was going to stop the game, it was the losing team's responsibility, not the winning team. But, had they done so, they still could have made a positive learning experience come from the situation, so that option was a viable one. But again, I seriously doubt that the girls on the losing team ever had the slightest desire to quit.

What I am disappointed in is that nobody in the media seems to be asking questions of the losing team. Instead, they focus on the winning team, as if they are trying to unmask a criminal or something. It's blatantly biased reporting. Shameful.

[CBEMT]

DALLAS — The coach of a Texas high school basketball team that beat another team 100-0 was fired Sunday, the same day he sent an e-mail to a newspaper saying he will not apologize "for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity."

Kyle Queal, the headmaster for Covenant School, said in The Dallas Morning News online edition that he could not answer if the firing was a direct result of coach Micah Grimes' e-mail disagreeing with administrators who called the blowout "shameful."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,482825,00.html

If I learned anything from 16 years of parochial education, it's that you don't disagree with the administration publicly and then just go back to work on Monday like nothing happened. :roll:

For the record, I never implied that the losing team should have quit or the winners stop playing. I just think that playing full-court press and shooting 3-pointers for an entire half when you're up by 60 points already is unnecessary overkill. You made your point, you're the better team by an order of magnitude. They could have obviously kept scoring with ease, without resorting to viciousness.

I don't blame the girls, they were doing what they were told by an adult who, unbeknownst to them, was unworthy of his title.

[DwayneEMTP]

To imply that someone’s children are going to be spoiled and week simply because they refuse to use archaic, provably idiotic parenting methods is absurd.

And what is this new trend of insulting people’s kids? It’s a chicken shit way to argue and I’m surprised to see it come from you Dust.

...I'm not sure if you confused me with someone else' date=' or if you just completely misunderstood that post. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out where I insulted anyone's kid.[/quote']

No confusion. As he stated that this is the way that he raises his kids, and you’ve claimed that this creates weak, spoiled kids, I felt, as I still do, that you were calling his child spoiled and weak.

[Dustdevil]

No confusion. As he stated that this is the way that he raises his kids' date=' and you’ve claimed that this creates weak, spoiled kids, I felt, as I still do, that you were calling his child spoiled and weak.[/quote']

That's a real desperate stretch there, buddy, considering his kid is a week old. Get real.

At least there is logic involved. There is no logic involved in attempting to hold me responsible for clarifications made in the situation since I made my original statement. As the available information changed, I changed my stand. I don't know why that's not good enough for you.

I don't care why the sky is blue, and I don't need a paper to convince me that it is. Some things just are, and I accept that. I find no entertainment or intellectual benefit in arguing with reality. And after six years as a paediatric nurse -- dealing with many kids, not just the one in my house -- this is the reality that I see.

Fortunately, you do not determine my rights.

You're changing your story. We were arguing apples and apples. Now you're turning it into a fruit salad. Not really a problem, since my original argument was that multiple approaches can be beneficial, and no one approach is best for all applications. You never claimed that a swat was an inherently bad thing itself, and I never claimed that time out was completely useless. So then, wtf are we arguing about?

I wasn't aligning you with Mr. Spock. I was pointing to him as the father of the pop-psychology of child raising theories, from which many of today's theories arguably sprang forth.

And the very same can be said about the majority of the "time out" crowd too, can it not? Most of them never actually studied Skinner or even Spock. They just heard someone say that "time out" is the way to go, then stumbled through figuring out the rules on their own. There is nothing scientific about that, yet they fail, and that majority must be included in your figures just like the minority who beats their children and locks them in the basement must be included in mine.

Moving one man's thinking forward is a lot easier than moving forward the thinking of a society. Our great grandchildren will be dead before such changes will ever be realised by society. Look at our public schools. They are still teh fail because of the "feel good" policies instituted by the hippies in the early 70s. Those tards are still running the NEA, so nothing will change for generations, even though decades of proven and published science, as well as practice, have proven them less than effective, and in fact counterproductive. Sorry... I'm not jumping on board with the latest pop theory in child raising just because everybody's doing it.

You're comparing one isolated logical fallacy with decades of observing reproducible results in hundreds of thousands of children? What happened to "science"?

Unfortunately, the "bad parenting" you speak of causing the problem in the first place is usually over-permissiveness and a failure to apply consequences to bad behaviour. You are right; if they had they been doing that from the beginning, the problem probably would not exist now. But that reinforces my theory, not weakens it.

That was exactly my plan too, to observe parents and children and their discipline habits, and determine which achieved the best adjusted and behaved kids. I did. And the results were overwhelmingly in favour of those parents who did not limit their style to one narrow school of thought, and who did not spare the rod. And, by acquiring this insight through distanced observation, rather than through participation, which biases the conclusions, I find my conclusions more valid.

[Dustdevil]

Great. Another unemployed black man. Just what we needed.

http://cbs11tv.com/sports/micah.grimes.the.2.917557.html

• Jan 26, 2009 5:29 pm US/Central

Winning Coach In 100-0 B-Ball Game Fired

Covenant Coach, Players Post 'No Apologies' On Web Site

DALLAS (CBS 11 News/AP) ―

The coach of a Texas high school basketball team that beat another team 100-0 was fired Sunday, the same day he sent an e-mail to a newspaper stating he will not apologize "for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity" and posted a detailed explanation on a hoops Web site.

The Covenant School girls basketball coach Coach Micah Grimes, along with girls from his team, released a statement on the website of the Flight Basketball Academy.

Kyle Queal, the headmaster for Covenant School, said in The Dallas Morning News online edition that he could not answer if the firing was a direct result of Grimes' e-mail disagreeing with administrators who called the blowout "shameful."

On its Web site last week, Covenant, a private Christian school, posted a statement regretting the outcome of its Jan. 13 shutout win over Dallas Academy.

"It is shameful and an embarrassment that this happened. This clearly does not reflect a Christlike and honorable approach to competition," said the statement, signed by Queal and board chair Todd Doshier.

Grimes, who has been criticized for letting the game get so far out of hand, made it clear in the e-mail Sunday to the newspaper that he does not agree with his school's assessment.

"In response to the statement posted on The Covenant School Web site, I do not agree with the apology or the notion that the Covenant School girls basketball team should feel embarrassed or ashamed," Grimes wrote on www.flightbasketball.com.

"We played the game as it was meant to be played. My values and my beliefs would not allow me to run up the score on any opponent, and it will not allow me to apologize for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity."

CBS 11 News was unable to reach the former coach by e-mail or in person. The Covenant School turned down repeated requests for interviews and posted a guard at its gate.

Parent Tracy Eckert hopes to enroll her children at Covenant School and thinks the attention is over the top. "I mean, the fact that the national media picked it up tells me we're out of the political season into the 'what's out there?' season!"

A parent who attended the game said Covenant continued to make 3-pointers -- even in the fourth quarter. She praised the Covenant players but said spectators and an assistant coach were cheering wildly as their team edged closer to 100 points.

Covenant was up 59-0 at halftime.

Dallas Academy has eight girls on its varsity team and about 20 girls in its high school. The team remains winless during the last four seasons. The academy boasts of its small class sizes and specializes in teaching students struggling with "learning differences," such as short attention spans or dyslexia.

In the Web posting, one unidentified student said: "I have ADD and ADHD. There is nothing that separates me from anyone on the Dallas Academy girls team, so there is nothing that should separate the value of our sides. What we did that night is what we are on this team for: to play basketball and win. As for the media calling our actions "unchristian", that is very sad. For this team, and our coach are a living testimony. I am not sorry for how we played that night because I know that no harm was intended and I also know no harm occurred. I would hope America was more willing to read the lies in between the lines. The coach is as important to the team as we are—we are with him 100 percent."

In his web posting Grimes pointed out the Covenant girls were not always a powerhouse and just four years ago were on the losing end of an 82-6 game.

There is no mercy rule in girls basketball that shortens the game or permits the clock to continue running when scores become one-sided. There is, however, "a golden rule" that should have applied in this contest, Edd Burleson, the director of the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools, said last week. Both schools are members of this association, which oversees private school athletics in Texas.

The story has received national attention, and the Dallas Academy team has been recognized for refusing to give up during the lopsided contest.

No word yet on who is coaching the Covenant School girls basketball team as they prepare for their next game.

I'm betting these girls will do just fine with any coach, or without a coach at all. In fact, I'd like to see them paired up with the opposing coach. Obviously, he has what it takes to inspire girls to give it their all, regardless of the odds. Should be a good fit.

[CTXMEDIC]

They could have obviously kept scoring with ease, without resorting to viciousness.

I don't blame the girls, they were doing what they were told by an adult who, unbeknownst to them, was unworthy of his title

:roll:

you STILL havent come up with a magic number that when reached should end the game. At what point do we tell the kids, "Nice try, but we got spanked, we're quitting now". It would seem that youre one of those people that believes everyone should be rewarded for others hard work. and seriously, cut out the pathetic cries of 'viciousness'. they lost a game, they didnt get dismembered. give it a rest, your whiny rants are tiresome.

[Dustdevil]

Exactly. If my kid has to grow up to be either vicious or a quitter, I'm choosing vicious.