Jury finds EMT unit negligent - Lazy or Not their fault?

[xselerate]

When EMS "forces entry" it's called breaking and entering, when FD or PD does it it's called "gaining entry". If the hose boys don't want to do it and PD don't want to do it then call it a day and move on. Not our job...

[Richard B the EMT]

When EMS "forces entry" it's called breaking and entering, when FD or PD does it it's called "gaining entry".

Until the policy changes I mentioned went into effect, the only way the NYC-EMS bosses would allow that B&E by our crews, was if the crew could actually see the patient on the floor, through a window in or near the front door.

[cynical_as_hell]

It would depend on the protocol and what kind of authority EMS has in the ares as to whether these guys were wrong for leaving or not. In the area I work in, there is nothing stated in our protocol to tell us what to do should we come across this same situation. In the past when our workers have had questions about rather something would be legal or not on our part, we were told to call law enforcement. So right or wrong depends on protocols and what the community sees as appropiate.

I do believe that these workers should have contacted law enforcement and requested their assistance in gaining access.

[spenac]

There should not be any need for a protocol in this situation. Common sense said someone called 911 from this house. If no one answers we will get the cops to open and enter home. We actually had an officer clear a house and said caller must have gone by another means. Called the ER no one had come in. So with the officer we went in and found the patient under the bed, guess they collapsed and rolled under somehow. Actually patient lived. Had we left would they have survived? Probably not. So at times we don't need black and white we need common sense. I know common sense has no place in EMS based on all we see and hear but I move that we bring it back.

[crotchitymedic1986]

They were wrong. It was verified by 911 that a live person had called for help, they should have verified that no one was home. Had it just been an "alarm" that went off, with no verification of a person being at home, they might have had an arguement. Better to have to replace a $100.00 window for someone who wasnt home, versus what they spent in legal fees to defend the case (they were lucky that the jury didnt award damages).

Cynic, you can not write a protocol for everything you encounter in EMS, sometimes you have to think on your own.

[Richard B the EMT]

Cynic, you can not write a protocol for everything you encounter in EMS, sometimes you have to think on your own.

Great! We think for ourselves, and someone turns it around into a complaint against you, your partner, and your agency. Believe me, suddenly there will be a protocol in place.

Years ago, a Medical Anti Shock Garment (MAST) was applied to a stabbing victim, as per the protocols then in place. The device did what it was designed to do, keep blood available specifically for the heart/lung/brain "circuit", but the nationally followed protocols didn't take into account for penetrating chest trauma, and the patient died from exanguination (multiple spell checks and I still don't know if that is how it is spelled). For those who don't watch the CSI shows, the guy bled out.

The EMS got sued for following the existing protocols, and protocols got changed within a month.

[Dustdevil]

If schools were actually EDUCATING people competently, providers wouldn't need a cookbook to know when not to apply an intervention.

Protocols are a poor substitute for education.

[crotchitymedic1986]

Amen, like i said many times, if you want to watch a rookie stain his undies, take his/her pulse ox or glucometer off his/her truck and make him run calls.

[Richard B the EMT]

I just remember hearing a lot of negative comments on "'Reactive' instead of 'Proactive'" directed at the agency.

[Dustdevil]

I just remember hearing a lot of negative comments on "'Reactive' instead of 'Proactive'" directed at the agency.

Sure, but there is more than one way to proact. You can either dumb the profession down to the lowest common denominator by making sure all your monkeys cook by the book. Or you can change the educational requirements to assure that the people representing you aren't monkeys to begin with. In the long run, the latter route is going to keep you out of a lot more such situations in the future than the former.