abandoment or not

[wemedic40]

i had a pt that i was transporting to the hospital, while enroute pts family member started having chest pain, and our dispatch notified us that she was having it, so i pulled over to make sure that the pt was okay, mean while my partner who was in the back with the original pt got out and proceeded to help the pts family member leaving the other pt in the back of the rig by herself. also i had started the ambulance that was going to have to pick this pt up since it was out of my psa, which my partner also loaded into our rig to go to the hospital with us.

[Christopher.Collins]

Well, as we discussed I ultimatley see it as abandonment. Yes you were in the ambulance and equal certification to your partner caring for your original patient... but a lawyer is likley to look at it as since you were in the cab and the patient was in back you were not readly available for the patients needs. If the patient suddenly has a seizure, you still have to get out, run around the back and get in rather than be right there from the moment your partner left.

Ive always been told to do it like this... if you come across an emergency while in transport, stop and call for assistance. The DRIVER regardless of certification level gets out and checks the scene. If your patient is not stable and requires an emergency transport then do not stop... call it in by radio.

[spenac]

OK take a deep breath and rewrite in English please. It is hard to follow what you are trying to say as written.

"i had a pt that i was transporting to the hospital, while enroute pts family member started having chest pain, and our dispatch notified us that she was having it, so i pulled over to make sure that the pt was okay, mean while my partner who was in the back with the original pt got out and proceeded to help the pts family member leaving the other pt in the back of the rig by herself. also i had started the ambulance that was going to have to pick this pt up since it was out of my psa, which my partner also loaded into our rig to go to the hospital with us. "

[Doug]

Still confused.

[wemedic40]

no chris you got it right

[Christopher.Collins]

Oops I already deleted it thinking I got it wrong from talking to you more about it... Ill try again.

Here goes.

Ok so your transporting an assault victim. The patient is stable and family is following in their POV behind you. Dispatch radio's that the family is calling and complaining of chest pain. You pull over and examin the second patient. Your partner of equal cert. (whos with the original patient in back) exits the ambulance and takes over care and tells you to get back to the original patient. Is this abandonment?

[crotchitymedic1986]

No it is not abandonment. The patient was in sight of the original medic, and you were in the vehicle with the patient (you should have gotten in the back with the original patient). Both patients were transported, so there is no abandonment. If this were abandonment, you would never be able to work an MCI. The first crew on the scene of any MCI, has to leave some patients intermittently to assess and treat other patients, until additional help arrives. It would be no different than if you had driven up on an MVC with no one on the scene.

[wemedic40]

MCIs are different from this we originally had one pt and the family was following us in the another vehicle, the original pts mother was in the other vehicle and started having chest pain, our dispatch called us and told us that the pts mother was having chest pain i proceeded to stop and make sure that the pts mother was okay, and also had another ambulance on its way, my partner was in the back with the original pt and got out of the rig and went back to help the pts mother leaving the pt in the back of the rig alone, in MN it doesnt matter whether you can see what the pt is doing in the back, if both of you are out of the rig it is still abandoment on her part

[Eydawn]

Let me see if I'm reading this right before I respond to the situation. You're taking a patient to the hospital and their family is following you POV. You are the driver.

Family starts having chest pain, calls dispatch, dispatch tells you family is having trouble, and both of you pull over. You call for another ambulance and your partner gets out of the back of the ambulance and goes to the family's car to check them out.

Your partner and the pt's family then get into the ambulance, and you are now transporting 2 patients.

Yes?

Here's my question. Was your partner ALS? Were there ALS interventions in place (12 lead, IV with meds) etc ongoing when your partner left the rig? Did you have visual contact with both your partner and the original patient the entire time?

If it was pretty simple and you were right there to jump into the back to provide care if necessary while your partner was assessing the pt in the car, I'd say there was no abandonment. If ALS interventions were left unattended and it took a really freakin' long time, then it's more of a grey zone leaning towards abandonment...

And crotchity, there was a huge thread on whether you stop at an MVC or not. Usually the answer is, if you are already transporting or already committed to a call, you call dispatch and let them sort out who's closer to which in order that everyone still gets care. You don't just roll up on an MVC and stop when you're transporting someone...

Wendy

CO EMT-B

[Eydawn]

If that's the case in MN, why did you even ask? You knew the answer already!

I think you can jump out as long as you have full visual on your pt here in CO... which is where my train of thought was coming from.

Wendy

CO EMT-B