Crisis in the Sky MedEvac Helicopter Crashes Deaths Escalate

[Happiness]

I would like to correct rock_shoes on the crash that occured in BC. I was not a paramedic at the time but I was on one of the boats dispatched for the search of the plane (not heli). First the weather was extreamly bad that evening and the crew that was waiting for the plane couldn't believe that the plane would actualy fly in that weather (I have seen them come in myself in wind that is rocking the ambulance). They did see the plane do its fly by the airport and then nothing ever landed. Now when I am dispatched for a medivac and the weather is extreme or the fog has settled to a low ceiling I will first call the airport to see what they are saying and then let my dispatch know, weather conditions as they change here in seconds. I do this as a result of that crash.

From my understanding and from talking to other pilots one of the factors in this crash was that the pilot didn't have alot of experience and that he had not manualy change the altimater thingy as he passed over sandspit (remember im not a pilot) and there for thought he was higher in the air than he really was, then hit the ocean. There were two bodies I think that were recovered from the crash and it was determined that they had survived the crash but then died from drowing and or hypothermia. The plane is still at the bottom of the ocean with some of the bodies remaining. There are two memorial plaques dedicated to this crash and they are both situated at our new hospital and I will post a picture of them in the gallary in the next few days.

The end result of this crash was that our community for months and maybe up to a year did not have any medivacs during night time until it was discovered that the most likely reason for the crash was pilot error. Even to this day there are people on crews that knew the guys and gals on the plane and when they come here they do feel creepy and don't like to fly into here.

This plane was comming here to pick up a mother and a new born. I don't know what the medical problem was but I guess it was bad enough to warrent a flight.

The other thing is that paramedics and pilots can refuse to do the flights without feeling that they will get fired. So maybe in the states they should make sure that the same rights are there for their people. It is a sad time when the all mighty buck comes before the saftey of a countries citizens.

[rock_shoes]

Happyness I was unaware that 2 of the bodies where recovered. Thank you for the more up to date information. I'm not sure having more details makes me feel any better about the incident having happened but more knowledge is always better.

[paramedicmike]

I can, and have, refused flights based on weather. I have been questioned about it but have not received any disciplinary action as a result. I won't deny that there is pressure for crews to take a flight. But every place with which I'm familiar has a similar policy allowing flight crews to refuse a flight for a variety of reasons.

I do find it interesting that Canada has over 230,000 HEMS flight hours since 1977 without a single fatal accident (source). While we in the US are killing ourselves off at a fanatical pace.

We are doing something very, very wrong. And it needs to stop.

-be safe

[crotchitymedic1986]

canada's numbers seem impressive, but didnt i read somewhere in here that they do not do scene landings or fly at night ? If that is true, the numbers are not that impressive.

[rock_shoes]

canada's numbers seem impressive, but didnt i read somewhere in here that they do not do scene landings or fly at night ? If that is true, the numbers are not that impressive.

Scene landings are done, though nearby open soccer fields and such are often first choice. Night operations do happen though they are restricted and avoided if at all possible. I suspect night operations are about to increase significantly in BC as all of our regular use helo's are in the process of being up fitted with with specialty lighting systems for night ops. We have been more restrictive with night-time operations but I don't think that is bad thing. I guarantee it has saved lives. Night flying is a special endorsement on a pilot's license in Canada. I don't know if that is the case in the US or not.

[VentMedic]

helicopters are overused and abused by ems. We need to stop flying organ donors.

I will fly an organ donor. It the patient has strong vitals but head injuries that will probably be fatal eventually, he/she goes into the helicopter. The young girl left for dead along the roadside by the San Antonio Paramedics would have been a good example.

This is also done as interfacility transport by both flight and ground if the patient can be moved to a nearby tranplant center where both procurement and the recipients' surgery can be done. If not, the procurement surgeons are flown to the patient for retrievable. Unfortunately, a procurement team from the University of Michigan is also amongst the fatalities for air crashes.

I will not fly a dead body or a code (trauma or otherwise) being worked. That patient is dead and the organs will be of little use. Whatever will be procured from them can be done later at the hospital if taken by ground or at the morgue.

[CTXMEDIC]

all of our local flight sevices will not transport a working code. Nor will we request them to do so.

[Arizonaffcep]

I can, and have, refused flights based on weather. I have been questioned about it but have not received any disciplinary action as a result. I won't deny that there is pressure for crews to take a flight. But every place with which I'm familiar has a similar policy allowing flight crews to refuse a flight for a variety of reasons.

Ya...the 3 to go, 1 for no. At my service, the only time you would get "questioned" for saying no...is if it becomes a "habit" and the other 2 don't see any reason not to go (for each "no-go"). And by "habit," I do mean it occurs frequently.

[VentMedic]

Ya...the 3 to go, 1 for no. At my service, the only time you would get "questioned" for saying no...is if it becomes a "habit" and the other 2 don't see any reason not to go (for each "no-go"). And by "habit," I do mean it occurs frequently.

Please read the Flight Dispatch Procedures at this link:

http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2006/SIR0601.pdf

It a little more involved than a Paramedic saying its okay for the pilot to fly. That pilot has a lot of responsibility resting on him/her and must rely on accurate updates for the different flight and landing conditions. His decision should not be based on medical necessity or the insistence of 2 Paramedics that it is imperative that they fly to attempt to change his/her mind. Nor should egos come in to play as what may have happened in the Maryland crash when the pilot made the statement "if they can do it so can we".

If our pilot says we don't fly, we don't question his/her judgement. If we don't feel it is safe to fly the pilot respects us and monitors the incoming data to see if conditions change. Ground transport will be arranged. If I am with a Specialty team at the sending hospital when conditions change, the pilot stays with the helicopter and will fly back when the weather clears. The team stays with the baby/pediatric until ground transport can be arranged to transport the team back to the hospital if the weather does not clear within a reasonable time. If it is an adult, we turn the responsibilty over to a ground CCT to see the patient reaches their destination if possible. We will then stay at base if we haven't gone in flight or wait with the helicopter until the weather clears to return. For HEMS, the patient should be with a Paramedic on a ground crew at scene and they will have to make their way to some hospital without us if it is not safe to fly.

In others words, we know our alternatives and utilize them.

Specialty teams, such as NICU, will also not go in flight until viable life is confirmed. We also do not make it a habit of telling our pilot how critical the patient is so it will not influence his/her decision to take an unnecessary risk.

[Arizonaffcep]

Please read the Flight Dispatch Procedures at this link:

http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2006/SIR0601.pdf

If it a little more involved than a Paramedic saying its okay for the pilot to fly. That pilot has a lot of responsibility resting on him/her and must rely on accurate updates for the different flight and landing conditions. His decision should not be based on medical necessity or the insistence of 2 Paramedics that it is imperative that they fly to attempt to change his/her mind. Nor should egos come in to play as what may have happened in the Maryland crash when the pilot made the statement "if they can do it so can we".

Absolutely right. PIC-Pilot in Command. And, actually we fly medic/RN/pilot teams.

If our pilot says we don't fly, we don't question his/her judgement. If we don't feel it is safe to fly the pilot respects us and monitors the incoming data to see if conditions change. Ground transport will be arranged. If I am with a Specialty team at the sending hospital when conditions change, the pilot stays with the helicopter and will fly back when the weather clears. The team stays with the baby/pediatric until ground transport can be arranged to transport the team back to the hospital if the weather does not clear within a reasonable time. If it is an adult, we turn the responsibilty over to a ground CCT to see the patient reaches their destination if possible. We will then stay at base if we haven't gone in flight or wait with the helicopter until the weather clears to return. For HEMS, the patient should be with a Paramedic on a ground crew at scene and they will have to make their way to some hospital without us if it is not safe to fly.

As it should happen. I was in reference to the thought process of one person saying "no" while not having a legit reason to say "no," ie they came in hung over, when they shouldn't have been at work in the first place (aside from the responsibility to actually behave professionally and NOT partied the night before) etc. I must admit, I have seen this action before...not with flight, but ground ambos.

In others words, we know our alternatives and utilize them.

Specialty teams, such as NICU, will also not go in flight until viable life is confirmed. We also do not make it a habit of telling our pilot how critical the patient is so it will not influence his/her decision to take an unnecessary risk.

For the pilot...objectivity is paramount. That's why when we are put on standby...we are told only generalities, ie "You are on standby for an MVC at XYZ." Or something similar where no Pt info is given until launched.