Arming EMT's

[tskstorm]

I know we have discussed being armed and wearing a bullet proof vest numerous times.

The NYS EMS Safety committee will be meeting and this is on the schedule to be discussed.

This started because of an EMT killed on the job while actively helping someone.

Story here

[chbare]

I cannot see how giving every EMT a gun will prevent deaths and violence. :? I can see more EMT's getting killed by their own sidearm and people getting shot that did not need to be shot.

Take care,

chbare.

[ericenglund]

I'm no pansie, but I'd bet my odds are better trying to get the hell out as fast I can, rather than stay in a house and have a gun battle.

[crotchitymedic1986]

A gun may be too much. It is sad that someone died, but more people drowned in bathtubs last year, so we do not need to pverreact to an isolated event. But I see no reason why you could not be armed with pepperspray or a tazer.

What may even be more ideal is a short "defensive" course where maybe you can get you local PD or martial arts instructor to teach you some "take down" techniques and other defensive moves.

[spenac]

Honestly having some form of self defense would be a great idea. But only for when theres no way out but to fight. Had the EMT that was shot had a gun or even a taser perhaps he could have fought back. We will never know.

[crotchitymedic1986]

I wasnt there, but from what I read, the patient became agitated and went to another room to retrieve the weapon. At that point, i would have followed the patient and tackled/restrain him once i knew or thought i knew what his intentions were, or ran like hell. I do not blame these volunteers for not doing that, as it isnt something you expect or are taught in school, its something you pick up with experience.

[VentMedic]

When you carry a gun, you can say "EMT or Parmedic" as many times you want when entering a scene but that gun will say something else. You will not be viewed as a healthcare professional entering the room but as an armed person who is probably law enforcement there to arrest or harrass and not perform medical treatment. That could put you in more danger and you do not have the PD academy training behind you and extensive field mentoring from an experienced LEO to prepare you for a situation of deadly force or prevent it from escalating to that level.

I can also see some EMT(P)s being charged for the use of their weapon inappropriately or escalating a situation out of control.

If anyone has been following the aftermath in Oakland, CA of the Police Officer shooting and killing a "poor victim", you can see that even by just doing what you perceive to be your job can land you a murder charge. Deadly mistakes can also happen. With today's cellphones and videocams, everyone will view the scene differently and it won't be always in your favor even if you think it was justified. By the time the courts are through with you and your family, everyone's life will be in shambles financially and emotionally. Even if the shooting is found to be justified, your life and those close to you will not be the same even if you can say you are still alive.

[Miss Sasha]

Allowing EMTs/Medics to carry a fire arm is just asking for trouble. What will be the regulations on when you can use it? Where is the funding going to come from to provide and train their staff on how to properly use the gun?

It's my understanding that the title FDNY isn't NYFD to prevent EMS personnel from getting attacked due to it being similar to NYPD. So wont adding a gun to the mix just make people automtically think "Cop" and make it even more dangerous to the EMS personnel?

I can also see an abuse of the fire arm and people getting overly trigger happy.

[spenac]

Allowing EMTs/Medics to carry a fire arm is just asking for trouble. What will be the regulations on when you can use it? Where is the funding going to come from to provide and train their staff on how to properly use the gun?

It's my understanding that the title FDNY isn't NYFD to prevent EMS personnel from getting attacked due to it being similar to NYPD. So wont adding a gun to the mix just make people automtically think "Cop" and make it even more dangerous to the EMS personnel?

I can also see an abuse of the fire arm and people getting overly trigger happy.

I see your and Vents points. This is a reason I have fought against EMS wearing badges. I do not want to be confused with law enforcement. But at the same time when under attack we should have some means to protect ourselves. We can no rely on LE. They actually are rarely on scene with us so it will be up to us to do something with the patient pulls a weapon. But again there is no easy answer and sadly the statements about some being trigger happy is probably true.

[VentMedic]

But at the same time when under attack we should have some means to protect ourselves. We can no rely on LE. They actually are rarely on scene with us so it will be up to us to do something with the patient pulls a weapon. But again there is no easy answer and sadly the statements about some being trigger happy is probably true.

If the patient pulls a gun, are you going to "outdraw" them like in the old western movies? If you pull a gun, you must have the ability use it and maybe kill someone. That could be a tall order for some. Talk is cheap and without extensive training, one really doesn't know if they can make an appropriate decision to kill someone. Some talk a big talk but how you will react if you actually had access to a gun could be very different than what you think.

Any hesitation once you've initiated your own attack can put yourself and others in danger. Just having the gun out may not deter all and some patients with suicidal or psych issues may want you to do what they can not do for themselves. If they know you have a gun, they will force your actions.

If it is a knife and you are so close that you can not back away, do you think you can safely fire a gun and not risk it getting knocked by the assailant with the bullet killing someone else?

A taser, yes maybe. But, only if it is meant to be used in self defense if you are in immediate danger of bodily harm or losing your life and not for a heroic "take down".

Once the public perceives you now as gun carriers, you may not get the same support if attacked as you have in the past. It will be just you and your lawyer fighting your battle. Even if the shooting is ruled as justified, you could still have a civil suit to further drain you and your family.

There is even talk to prevent LEOs in some areas from carrying weapons because they can not maintain adequate training or the nature of their location may put the public at risk.