Arming EMT's

[crotchitymedic1986]

Dust is right, i would spin it the other way: You dont trust your partner with a gun, but you do trust them with life and death patient treatment decisions ? Children can be taught to operate a gun safely, it doesnt require any medical skills or even above-average intelligence.

[VentMedic]

Dust is right, i would spin it the other way: You dont trust your partner with a gun, but you do trust them with life and death patient treatment decisions ? Children can be taught to operate a gun safely, it doesnt require any medical skills or even above-average intelligence.

Shooting a gun safely and being trained to use deadly force for the many different situations you face on the job are two very different things.

Children can be taught to intubate also or any other skill. Does that mean they know when and how to perform the skill?

Do you want to be known again as Public Safety Officers?

Do you believe EMT(P)s should be required to be concerned more with training and retrainng for firearms then medical applications? Should they be again recognized as a Public Safety Officer rather than a medical professional?

If so, then some need to stop whining about FFs doing EMS since the argument is also about doing two very different skills for very different professions.

EMS already has an identity crisis.

[crotchitymedic1986]

Are you saying it is impossible to do two things at once (maintain medic skills and shoot a gun). I dont think you have to sacrifice one to do the other. Its not like you have to fire a gun every hour of the day to stay proficient. I am sure most police officers only practice shooting bi-weekly or monthly.

But you do make a good point about the difference between being trained to shoot a gun, and being trained to use deadly force in all situations. Good point.

[DwayneEMTP]

Dust is right, i would spin it the other way: You dont trust your partner with a gun, but you do trust them with life and death patient treatment decisions ? Children can be taught to operate a gun safely, it doesnt require any medical skills or even above-average intelligence.

I continue to be confused when we bring this back to "Anyone can be taught to shoot a gun." That is akin to saying, "Anyone can be taught to start an IV." But starting it is ridiculously easy when compared to putting it to use right?

Those that have been in violent situations, and have approached them with intelligence instead of machisimo, know that they are terribly complex situations. People tend to look at violence as simply "He's shooting at me, so I'm going to shoot back at him." But if somebody is shooting, then most of the important decisions have been lost...

This is one of those discussions that seem so obvious to me that I'm not sure where to begin, nor end arguing. I would rather allow them to fly planes "just because' then to carry a gun. And yeah, when I say 'them', I mean me as well...We don't allow many to RSI because they can't be trusted to work their way through the complexities of the intervention, how much more complex is the decision to take a life, when to take take it, etc?

And then of course, and it pains me to say it, but there is all of the Lone Star stuff...

Dwayne

[JakeEMTP]

All I can say is, I'm glad I don't work where you guys do. This topic hasn't ever been brought up at meetings. When we are sent to a call for AMS or possible suicide or gunshot/knife wound et al, the PD ALWAYS responds with us. We don't enter a scene until it has been deemed safe by LEO's, the people trained for such incidents. I'm not naive enough to believe a scene is safe just because Law Enforcement says so. No scene is truly safe. I'd much rather focus on pt. care and leave the gun slinging to the pros. I agree with CBEMT. I'll wear a vest, but I'm not arming myself.

[Fox800]

Pepper spray would be nice, it can be easily concealed in a utility pouch. A Taser with an attached video/audio camera would be ideal. That would help cover the agency's ass if it was ever used.

[Dustdevil]

And this has what to do with medical professionals?

Nothing, and that is exactly my point. It is wholly irrational to argue a different standard for medical professionals than for the general population.

They do not have the luxury of calling PD and sitting around the corner or having a dispatcher screening the customers and sending PD if it sounds like trouble.

Not relevant. It is not those runs that "sound like trouble" that kill us. It is those runs that turn to shyte without warning that kill us.

But, these store owners have made a choice to be in that business.

Firemonkeys not withstanding, so did we.

There is no mystery that you will be using a gun when going into the military.

That too is a major part of my point. Anyone can be successfully trained to handle a weapon competently. There were ladies in my concealed weapon licence class that were in their 70s who did just fine.

However, adding a gun to their belt takes us back to the issues we had in the 70s and 80s with the Public Safety Officer concept.

Not at all. You're not giving the medic any additional duty or responsibility. You're just giving him the means with which to defend himself, his partner, and his patient, should he so choose.

For another reason why guns are not a great idea, look at what the flashy medic mill ads and L/S attrack now. Imagine if a gun was added to the list of skills. All those soldier and cop wannabes that coudn't be would be wanting a job where they could still carry a weapon.

I am certainly not advocating an across the board policy for EMS nationwide. I am simply advocating that, a medic who is otherwise lawfully entitled to carry concealed should be allowed to do so on duty. Those who are already lawfully entitled to carry are already doing so. Entering EMS would not entitle them to anything they aren't already entitled to.

Even doctors and other medical professionals that volunteer in troubled countries refrain from wearing a weapon especially if there are people who are specifically trained for weapons around them. They want to maintain the image of healers and not present as those who have destroyed that country through guns and violence.

In service in three wars, I have yet to see a doctor who had a problem with carrying his weapon in harms way.

Now imagine, at 0300, a bed head EMT(P) wearing a T-Shirt and faded cargo pants wearing a gun rushing into a building. Can one see the potential for danger here?

Not if it is concealed. We're talking about a tool here, not a uniform accessory.

[csly27]

Hmmm. I like guns and when I lived in az I used to carry for the job I had back then. I still enjoy going out and shooting. My husband is in the army and he has taught me a lot about self defense. I can take care of myself in most situations. I think in this day and age vests are a very wise Idea. I just graduated my emt-b class and to think of half those people with a weapon bad bad idea. Leave the guns to the leos, but there is no reason why emt and medics cant wear vests or take self defense classes, maybe even pepper spray but even with that you would need to be careful and trained. Don't wanna spray a room full of asthmatics. Just my take on this.

[Dustdevil]

No scene is truly safe. I'd much rather focus on pt. care and leave the gun slinging to the pros.

Once the gunslinging starts, you can no longer focus on patient care, can you? So now what? Forget the cops. They're not there because your scene was "safe", remember?

I agree with CBEMT. I'll wear a vest, but I'm not arming myself.

I would never advocate forcing or requiring anyone to carry a weapon who was not comfortable with it. I'm not talking about a job requirement. I'm talking about a permissive policy. I expect there will be medics who refuse to work with an unarmed partner, and vice versa. Cest la vie.

[VentMedic]

Okay Dust, you put EMS back 25 years to being Public Safety Officers again and not medical professionals. EMS can't find a decent path to define itself in the medical field, it might as well just stay with a bunch of certs including "firearms".