Time for MAST to tighten belt

[Kiwiology]

Well what is a medical professional?, what would be the current standards?, to me a medical professional is a RN, RT, MD etc. emt's and paramedics are just a stepping stone job. I apologize if I don't get the professional part.

So you are not a professional then; you don't take a professional attitude towards knoweldge, skill and practice? If somebody has a cardiac arrest you wouldn't check the drugs and joules and do a proper survery you'd be unprofessional is that what you are saying?

Although we may not have the same training as a nurse or a doctor they are no better than or worse than anybody in the emergency medical services.

As far as I am concerned if you as a provider of medical care take your job seriously and are serious about your knowledgebase, skill use and continuing education then you are by all means, a medical professional.

If you are not interested in a deeper, thoroigh understanding of why your protocols exist and simply know to do A then B and perhaps C incase of D you are not a professional.

Now I admit I am by no means the most knowledgable or the most highly certified EMSer out there; but I do take serioisly my quest to learn and understand the anatomy, physiology and/or pharmacology of my protocols; why they exist, what they will do/not do and what to expect when it happens so I am not simply restricted to "do this, then this, oh, then do that". If you think that way then foreshame on your limited scope of thinking.

As far as the LACoFD is concerned; I am no expert but from what I have heard I'd place them somewhere near the same grouping as the "cookbook" medics who know how to follow a protocol only.

[Diazepam618]

And that's where the lack of perspective comes in. Look beyond the trade schools and 120 hr wonders in the US and you'll see systems that work. Hell look within your own country and shake the wheat from the chaff and you'll find some excellent Paramedic education programs that turn out competent, professional providers. They're just choked by a sea of mediocre shit training.

Examples of proper education for EMS.

Ontario, Canada

Primary Care Paramedic (PCP) - BLS 2 yrs of education

Advanced Care Paramedic (ACP) - ALS 1 further year of education

Critical Care Paramedic (CCP) - ALS 2 further years of education (Air or Land CCTU only)

Alberta, Canada

PCP - 1 yr education

ACP - 2 yrs education

Other provinces similar variations on the above, but I'm less familiar with their standards. Refer to the Paramedic Association of Canada's National Occupational Competency Profile for more info.

Australia

Bachelor of Paramedic Science - 3 year university degree

Great Britain

Couldn't find non-wiki info; Degreed education

So yes if you continue to accept unacceptable levels of education EMS will never be more than a stepping stone. But if you look outside your own backyard (or look closely at where EMS works within your own country) you'll find that EMS is a very different profession than you realized with a great deal of potential. It just needs to stop being held back by those within it. I won't argue this point much further as a quick search of the forums will find the many equine carcasses of battles long past. I encourage you to read at least one of them and see what you can learn.

Thanx for the heads I will search the fourms, but the original thread was posted as a financial issue and thats what I was getting at. As far as all these high education programs that's cool and all but I don't think people are going to go to school all that time just to find out that in some parts of the country people are still going to give there service away for free. I live work in southern Cali and unless Iam wrong or can't see into the future EMS will always be part of the fire service, so with that it is very well a stepping stone job when you can't make a living in the private world.

[Dustdevil]

As far as all these high education programs that's cool and all but I don't think people are going to go to school all that time just to find out that in some parts of the country people are still going to give there service away for free. I live work in southern Cali and unless Iam wrong or can't see into the future EMS will always be part of the fire service, so with that it is very well a stepping stone job when you can't make a living in the private world.

Oh ye of little faith. The world is changing, and so is the profession. Not as quickly as many of us would like it to, but it is indeed changing. It's a little silly of you to assume that things will always be the way they are today, simply because it's been that way throughout your short career. Before the fire departments took over So Cal, the privates thought they would run things forever. They didn't. Educational standards are evolving, and they will eventually evolve beyond the grasp of the fire service and the volunteers. The same thing happened in medicine, nursing, respiratory therapy, physical therapy, and every other medical profession, so there is no reason to believe it will not happen to EMS. In fact, it would be absurdly illogical to think so. We're not that special.

[Just Plain Ruff]

ok, MAST is a pretty darn good service. Has it's idiots and doofus's but don't we all?

When you have a fire department like Kansas city that sends a rescue truck or a pumper to every medical call be it a fractured leg to a cardiac arrest you have a fire department that justifies it's existence based on EMS calls rather than fire calls.

I think a good service to model the system after is the Med-Act system in the Johnson County Fire District #2 where they only run on life threats such as chest pain, short of breath and motor vehicle accidents. For simple falls and broken hands etc. they do not run on.

But when you have a system that sends a fire truck on every single medical call except for transfers then you have a department that justifies it's existence on 98% ems calls and 2% fire calls.

Mast runs about 250 or so calls a day (my numbers may be off a little bit) of those calls 150 are emergency calls. For each of those emergency calls you get a fire truck.

KC FD runs maybe 1 house fire every week (maybe more on a given week) and 3-10 other types of fire calls per day, then you see where your resources are going every day.

Folks, you can really run ambulance calls without a fire truck. I do it every day I work. I run cardiac arrests and trauma codes and criticall MI's and Hypertensive crisis calls every shift without the help of a fire truck. I have available first responders in some of my smaller towns but the majority of my calls I run with an EMT.

It honestly CAN Be done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spenac]

Folks, you can really run ambulance calls without a fire truck. I do it every day I work. I run cardiac arrests and trauma codes and criticall MI's and Hypertensive crisis calls every shift without the help of a fire truck. I have available first responders in some of my smaller towns but the majority of my calls I run with an EMT.

It honestly CAN Be done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes it can. We often even finish packaging and loading patients at wreck scenes and are enroute to the hospital before fire even gets there. If I need more hands lifting often I have to count on patients family or bystanders.

[mobey]

Yes it can. We often even finish packaging and loading patients at wreck scenes and are enroute to the hospital before fire even gets there. If I need more hands lifting often I have to count on patients family or bystanders.

In the last 3 years I have been to 2-3 calls with fire (outside of MVC's). Those were just really big patients.

When you work rural with a volly fire dept everything changes. The firefighters get a little annoyed if you take them away from thier full time jobs to help do YOUR job.

[CBEMT]

yes and no, LA County FD is not hurting financially and is a great model for county/city EMS

Welp, I guess that tells us everything we need to know about this one now doesn't it.

[Just Plain Ruff]

Yes it can. We often even finish packaging and loading patients at wreck scenes and are enroute to the hospital before fire even gets there. If I need more hands lifting often I have to count on patients family or bystanders.

but you know what, the pencil pushers who dictate and develop budgets for big city and small city departments need these ems calls to justify their existence. If you play your cards right you can limit responses to calls that really might require fire on scene and you probably can do without some of these firemen.

But the pencil pushers have to justify their existence somehow.

[Dustdevil]

This just seems like such a mathematical no-brainer:

• Proposition 1: Hire people who have already acquired the two years of education necessary to perform 98 percent of their job, and send them to the 4 months of training necessary to perform the other 2 percent.

Proposition 2: Hire people who have already acquired the 4 months of training necessary to perform 2 percent of their job, and send them to the two years of education necessary to perform the other 98 percent.

Proposition 3: Hire people with no education or training necessary to perform their job, and send them to two and a third years of school to acquire that entry level of qualification.

• Come on, guys! Is this really hard to figure out?

[spenac]

Is this really hard to figure out?

YES? :shock: