Questions surround paramedics' response to head trauma vic.

[CTXMEDIC]

Like the McSwain Dart?

A dart also means any access to get a patient down or a little less combative. IV access may be difficult and probably not an option initially.

Hmm. Never heard the term used that way. learn sumptin new every day.

[paraloco]

sorry for the slang. I meant he gets chemically restrained with versed.

[ERDoc]

To play devil's advocate here, do you think this guy has a leg to stand on if he were to sue them? The care he received was far from adequate/competent, but was any harm done by it? Their attorney could argue that any harm done was done by the initial assault and that even though the medics were tools, they did not do harm and therefore are not responsible for damages in a civil case. I would like to think that any hope of them touching another human is nil.

As an aside, when I read "dart," I also thought it meant to needle the chest. I too have learned something.

[emtgrimreaper]

If they assumed he was drinking why didn't they smell alcohol on his breath and note it on the pcr. I may be dumb about this, shouldn't all head injuries be considered a trauma and that dictate where they are taken? just a question

[Just Plain Ruff]

I can tell you all what I'll do to a combative head injury patient - RSI baby but I recognize most services do not have that luxury.

But any helicopter service has that ability. If they don't then they need to re-evaluate why they don't.

The paramedics sound like they are toast. If the allegations that are made are true, they deserve to get their licenses pulled or fired or both.

[VentMedic]

sorry for the slang. I meant he gets chemically restrained with versed.

You'll hear the term "dart" occasionally when PD asks for assistance with a combative patient. They usually mean chemical restraint where versed is sometimes used even though controversial.

[spenac]

Well I don't know why but I'll play voice of reason tonight. This is a news report. Much of it could be slanted to sell news. There is every possibility that we are not getting the full story. Would you want to be hung w/o a fair trail? Wow that was tough.

[CBEMT]

As far as a helo ride, looking at the map it'd be a really quick flight but it may not be THAT long of a ground transport. We have to be 30 minutes out by ground before we can consider HEMS. And even then, until recently the pad wasn't even at the hospital- resulting in an ambulance trip to the ER, thereby extending total transport time.

[CTXMEDIC]

Well I don't know why but I'll play voice of reason tonight. This is a news report. Much of it could be slanted to sell news. There is every possibility that we are not getting the full story. Would you want to be hung w/o a fair trail? Wow that was tough.

True that but we do have one of the medics statements in evidence. Unless the award winning paramedic that wrote the original gripe is a total knob/liar, these two medics should be, at the least, fired. I just dont see the medic writing some hate mail just for the hell of it. He has nothing to gain by doing it. This crew was on scene exactley 20min. per the dispatch tapes provided. Id like to know what they were doing for those 20min.

[Happiness]

Okay I to am gong play devils advocate in this one. I have read all the respones and this is what I have come up with.

First a combative pt regardless of the reason for it is a potential danger to the paramedics and those around him. One of the first things I was taught was my scene assesment if I don't feel safe I don't touch the pt.

Using the heli for transport with a combative pt is a no no in any situation the doors are so sensitive and the since the pt is placed by a door all it would take is a push on the door and then shit will hit the fan.

The presence of an off duty award winning paramedic. This guy may be great as a paramedic but maybe he should think about how he would feel if it was his call and some other off duty award winning paramedic showed up. Personally I have had off duty ALS visiting here show up on a few scenes and when they ask can I help you Im all over it, the more the merrier.

They are stateing that they didn't do any spinal percautions. So you have a combative pt how are you going to get that collar on let alone get him on the board and strap him down. I don't agree with the family taking him to the ambulance and putting him on the streacher but I guess you do what ever you can do.

Now personally I don't think these paramedics did a great job on this call and I don't know what their level of training is but when you are dealing with the media you have to sometimes read between the lines. I do think that if the allagations are true they should be fired and their licenses removed.