itku2er Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 I am placing this in this section for a reason, Recently I have got to see this happen and it worries me to a point and it puzzles me to a point. Ok here is a scenario. You are working the rehab unit and you get a new admit a 64 yo there for rehab for a broken him and wrist. A new diagnosis of skin cancer and no other history. The past month this lady has been getting up walking with therapy and doing well until...This ladies family comes into the room and starts Oh momma God is getting ready for you have cancer and you are going to die. Every day for a month this man came into the room saying the same thing... He was the RP even social services administrator and nursing staff talked to him about his behavior. A week later the lady had a major decline in condition when she started refusing to go to therapy she refused her treatments and then a month later a vital woman that was up walking doing self care was gone. But my question is was the constant hearing you are going to die mom do you all think that is possible that she just gave up cause they gave up on her? I don't know if you any one that reads this has heard of Dr Randy Paush (not sure if that how you spell his name) but the point is he gaves lots of motavational speechs...and When dealing with this a quote he said came to mind. When people quit pushing you and giving you hell to go past where you are then that means they have given up on you. The human psyche is a powerful thing.
spenac Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Your mind if you hear and believe what your being told can speed or slow death at times. A family member was misdiagnosed by multiple doctors with a deadly disease and body organs actually were shutting down before it was discovered they had diagnosed wrong. Family member is still alive 20 years later but many of the organs never returned to proper function. Sorry no more details still pisses me off. So I would say that telling someone that trusts you they are going to die over and over could get them to die.
firedoc5 Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 It's quite possible that all the "discouraging" words did make her give up. One thing I've noticed about the elderly is how they thrive on the will to live. You remove that will to live and they can decline rapidly. That's what it sounds like in your story, Terri. I get so frustrated when I hear nursing home pt.'s families that come in and do just that. I've even heard some nursing home staff say it. To me, no matter their age or their condition, you talked to them with encouragement and positive comments. But that's just me.
emtannie Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 I believe that just like the child who is always told that they are stupid, or ugly, and they believe it, anyone, if told something long enough, will believe what they are told, and it will come true. Because they believe it, they begin to act in the way that they are "expected"" - the child becomes withdrawn or quits trying in school.... and in the case that itk posted, the lady quit trying to thrive, and did give up and die. I also believe that there are individuals who will defy the odds as long as possible. These are the ones who, when given a terminal diagnosis, refuse to give up and either recover from the illness, or survive much longer than doctors anticipated. The human psyche is an amazing thing. When used for positive, miracles can occur. It is unfortunate that more people cannot see the positive. I regularly remind myself of a quote from my father. He had been diagnosed with bone cancer, and was given 3 months to live. He told the doctors that he had too much to do, and that he wasn't going to die in 3 months. He lived 4 years and 2 months after that diagnosis. The last 8 months he was paralyzed from the mid-thoracic region down, as the cancer had damaged his spinal cord. My mom and I took care of him at home until he died... and one day as I was sitting in his room and talking with him, I told him that he was a hero to me, because he never complained about his condition. He looked me in the eyes, and said "If you spend your time counting your blessings, you don't have time to complain about your problems." I believe that attitude was what kept him alive for so long (and Russian stubbornness didn't hurt either).
sirduke Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 The question was, Can you will someone to die? Sometimes I wish...
Arizonaffcep Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 I don't think that has anything to do with "willing" someone to die...but proves the power of the psychie (sp?).
Happiness Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 The mind is a powerful thing here is a story i heard when i was a teenager. General diagnosed with a treatable skin cancer. When he was diagnosed he said omg I have cancer and Im going to die. Went through all the treatments available back then and died 6 months later. Private diagnosed with brain cancer. When he was diagnosed he said omg i have cancer, I also have a new wife and baby so Im going to fight this and see my child grow up. He did all the surgeries and treatments was given 8 months and was cancer free 5 years later.
Richard B the EMT Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Some anecdotal information I have, that partially resulted in my CB Radio "Handle" of "The Witch Doctor", was, in Voodoo, if you are raised believing a handmade doll that looks like you, and has specific colored pins stuck into specific areas of the doll can cause you to die, on getting one delivered to you could literally frighten you to death. This is similar to the mental abuse of telling a child they are stupid or ugly to the point they come to believe they are either or both ugly and stupid, which was already mentioned in this string.
Arizonaffcep Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 On topic for this thread...anyone interested in reading more, google Norman Cousins. Quite an interesting story.
2wheelinemt Posted March 14, 2009 Posted March 14, 2009 I am placing this in this section for a reason, Recently I have got to see this happen and it worries me to a point and it puzzles me to a point. Ok here is a scenario. You are working the rehab unit and you get a new admit a 64 yo there for rehab for a broken him and wrist. A new diagnosis of skin cancer and no other history. The past month this lady has been getting up walking with therapy and doing well until...This ladies family comes into the room and starts Oh momma God is getting ready for you have cancer and you are going to die. Every day for a month this man came into the room saying the same thing... He was the RP even social services administrator and nursing staff talked to him about his behavior. A week later the lady had a major decline in condition when she started refusing to go to therapy she refused her treatments and then a month later a vital woman that was up walking doing self care was gone. But my question is was the constant hearing you are going to die mom do you all think that is possible that she just gave up cause they gave up on her? I don't know if you any one that reads this has heard of Dr Randy Paush (not sure if that how you spell his name) but the point is he gaves lots of motavational speechs...and When dealing with this a quote he said came to mind. When people quit pushing you and giving you hell to go past where you are then that means they have given up on you. The human psyche is a powerful thing. I totally believe that that is what happened. I have seen it and when someone is holding on and you go to there bedside and tell them it's ok you can go and that's it they are gone. I have lupus and sjogrens that is a sister to lupus so a double wammy on my joints and now my orgins. I just spent a week in the hosp. Icu and then pcu. well if it wasn't for my husband being there at the worst times and just letting me know he's there and things will be ok, i don;t know things were pretty bad at times. so yesi believe those people instead of incourgaging her they drug her don't and she no longer believed in what she was doing that was working. she believed in them and there is the proof. so sorry. we need people to keep us up esp when we are sick. sick with a long term illness mostly! so keep that in mind also. as soon as someone gets a long term illness that doesn't take us fast enough that's it this world doesn't have time for us! lets all remember that everyone needs to be encouraged.
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