Which Lanes For Multiple-lane Emergent Travel?

[Dustdevil]

I disagree with never pass on the right. You should try to minimize it, but in reality, you can not say "never pass on the right".

While I agree with the gist of what you are getting at, you have to remember who we are dealing with here. EMTs. Mostly under 25, with very little driving experience or education, and a lot more adrenaline and testosterone than common sense. The lowest common denominator of society. If there is anything they can screw up, they will. If they screw up medical care, the patient dies. But if they screw up driving, I die. This will not be allowed to happen. Consequently -- just like medical care itself -- you have to dumb this down for them. That means a list of "always" and "never" rules, or "protocols" if you will, for them to follow. If at some point one of those rare exceptions to those rules comes up, then we can deal with it at that time. But for educational purposes, the "always" and "never" rules must be very firmly established from the get-go. Otherwise, they will spend every moment behind the wheel just looking for those exceptions -- just like they look for exceptions to give drugs that aren't really needed -- and it will end very badly. Seen it happen a thousand times.

[Richard B the EMT]

New York State law says all traffic is to pull to the right, slow down or stop, while not blocking an intersection, when they see the lights or hear the siren of an EV.

However, as pointed out, what is supposed to be, and reality, are 2 quite different things.

Now, if other drivers want to go up onto the center median, while others pull right, then straddling the line between lanes one and two is good (let the civilian drivers get the flats from debris on the median).

I must say, however, going slow when passing on either shoulder is a good idea, even if using L&S while doing so. Drivers are crazy anyway, and add being startled crazy is never going to turn out well for somebody.

However, I have had demonstrated to me a point I have to make. In a very large parking lot, I was in an instructor's POV, wipers going, and a Led Zep tape playing on the 8 track (it was a long time ago), and asked, as were the other 3 students in the Toyota, to face forward, and say when we heard the siren of our own ambulance that was following us. At 35 to 40 MPH, we only started hearing the siren when our ambulance was less than 30 some odd feet behind us.

[brentoli]

Don't you just love kids who look for the exception to EVERY rule. Gah. i really am maturing in my old age.

[TJZ]

Never say never.

I try not to pass on the right but with all of the stupid human tricks I have encountered in my still short EMS career it does happen. If I can see that you are clearly dumb and have clearly pulled over to the wrong side and are clearly holding still, I will go around you on the right but NOT if you are still moving.

Just for fun I will throw out there that my FAVORITE stupid human track when noticing an ambulance in the rear view mirror on the 2 lane highway is to lock up the brakes, not pull over, but just panic and lock them up. Ambulances can stop on a dime you know (sarcasm for anyone that may have missed my tone in text ) .

I am a bit bitter on the emergent driving today. Lots of snow last shift and long hauls with new vent patients that wrecked in the snow that I am now expected to drive fast in WITHOUT wrecking. Fun times.

I must be old because I really am not that excited to go emergent. The kids sure do like it though don't they.

[robert gift]

Never say never.

I try not to pass on the right but with all of the stupid human tricks I have encountered in my still short EMS career it does happen. If I can see that you are clearly dumb and have clearly pulled over to the wrong side and are clearly holding still, I will go around you on the right but NOT if you are still moving.

Just for fun I will throw out there that my FAVORITE stupid human track when noticing an ambulance in the rear view mirror on the 2 lane highway is to lock up the brakes, not pull over, but just panic and lock them up. Ambulances can stop on a dime you know (sarcasm for anyone that may have missed my tone in text ) .

I am a bit bitter on the emergent driving today. Lots of snow last shift and long hauls with new vent patients that wrecked in the snow that I am now expected to drive fast in WITHOUT wrecking. Fun times.

I must be old because I really am not that excited to go emergent. The kids sure do like it though don't they.

My scariest times have been transporting traumaCORS, esophageal bleeds or suspected AAAs in snow and ice or fog or downpours or duststorms. (In 1981 I even followed a tornado!)

When the patient dies, I regret, 'Could/should I have gotten him to the ED sooner?'

Was I driving too slowly for conditions?

Should I have taken a better route?

(I still feel horrible about a mother who was talking enroute but died shortly upon arrival.

She had vomited blood following surgery for esophageal erosion.

Reluctant to call an ambulance, she finally did.

As the patient was being loaded, her daughter was coming home from school for lunch and started running.

That was the last she saw her mother alive.

I blame the paramedic on scene for not loading and going.

We.re there 20 minutes as he tried to be a hero and start his oh so important IV.

The hospital was three minutes away.)

I try always to pass on the left, but others' maneuvers can make that impossible or impractical.

As a fire department instructor, I have had PSAs on the radio - but never about simply engaging right turn signal, safely changing lanes to the right and stopping.

[firedoc5]

Why called "kamikaze"?

Glad you asked. You know how some docs are wanting the patient at the receiving hospital, like an hour ago? Back then there was only four helo's in our area and was a miracle to get one there within 2 hrs. Between about five of us we had a good reputare with some of the docs. We were almost always requested. I even had one doc ask how fast the rig could go. I asked him how fast did he want it to go. He was straight to the point of put the pedal to the metal and not let off until we got to the receiving hospital. I tried to explain to him that would not be safe, but I would do my best to get there alive. He accepted it.

After these request were made, those of us who were "deemed" rapid resonse drivers per doctor's orders just started to call them Kamikazee runs. Sorrt of like an inside joke.

Glad you asked. You know how some docs are wanting the patient at the receiving hospital, like an hour ago? Back then there was only four helo's in our area and was a miracle to get one there within 2 hrs. Between about five of us we had a good reputare with some of the docs. We were almost always requested. I even had one doc ask how fast the rig could go. I asked him how fast did he want it to go. He was straight to the point of put the pedal to the metal and not let off until we got to the receiving hospital. I tried to explain to him that would not be safe, but I would do my best to get there alive. He accepted it.

After these request were made, those of us who were "deemed" "rapid response drivers' per doctor's orders just started to call them Kamikazee runs. Sorrt of like an inside joke.

[JPINFV]

Never say never.

I try not to pass on the right but with all of the stupid human tricks I have encountered in my still short EMS career it does happen. If I can see that you are clearly dumb and have clearly pulled over to the wrong side and are clearly holding still, I will go around you on the right but NOT if you are still moving.

So if the car is going 5 MPH you just pull up behind them until they stop and then go around?

Just for fun I will throw out there that my FAVORITE stupid human track when noticing an ambulance in the rear view mirror on the 2 lane highway is to lock up the brakes, not pull over, but just panic and lock them up. Ambulances can stop on a dime you know (sarcasm for anyone that may have missed my tone in text

The simple solution is to not tail gate, and then you wouldn't have to worry about them slamming on their breaks. Just because you are driving emergently doesn't mean you should drive aggressively. Normal defensive driving habits should still apply. Look ahead, not just at the cars in front of you, but a few cars ahead of them to anticipate stops/swerves/other curve balls, and watch your mirrors to know which lanes besides you are free and knowing where you can place the ambulance if you need to make a last second maneuver.

[Richard B the EMT]

I guess we are all in agreement, no matter what the rules of the road are, either in law, or perceived, there is always going to be a big difference between "Supposed to be" and "Reality".

[tskstorm]

I guess we are all in agreement, no matter what the rules of the road are, either in law, or perceived, there is always going to be a big difference between "Supposed to be" and "Reality".

Maybe we should just trade in our ambulances for horses, and I do mean horses, then we don't have to worry about mvc's or what lane to travel in/pass in, just try not to get run over by a semi!

[reaper]

Maybe we should just trade in our ambulances for horses, and I do mean horses, then we don't have to worry about mvc's or what lane to travel in/pass in, just try not to get run over by a semi!

We would get even more injuries!!

Can you imagine all the drunks falling off their horses. That is a long fall!