In England They Do Fake Emergent Driving In Public!

[Dustdevil]

Who the Hell would ever expected this thread to turn into an epic debate?

[robert gift]

When i did my emergency driver training, over 15 years ago in Scotland, so don't call me bloody English ;-) we would drive around Glasgow under instruction of the driving assessor monitoring the radio, when a REAL emergency call came in, we would respond to it, as an extra, additional resource, usually to from the opposite side of the city & run the call until stood down by control advising us of the first crew's attendance. That way we were able to get real world assessment of a real world situation but in a fully controlled & structured way, while always having the option for the assessor to terminate the drive, to discuss any training issued they had identified without detriment to the original caller, & if for some reason, we were to arrive on scene first, the driving assessor/paramedic would simply treat the patient until back up arrived, so at no time was there ever any such thing as a FAKE emergency drive.

Now that makes a little more sense if you can get on scene before the other unit.

But I have the answer:

Do fake emergency runs only when you have fake emergencies!

[scott33]

I have the answer:

Do fake emergency runs only when you have fake emergencies!

Well done. You have managed to contradict every post you have made on this thread.

Please, keep posting

[robert gift]

Well done. You have managed to contradict every post you have made on this thread.

Please, keep posting

Glad you finally caught some of my dubious humor.

Presumably you have heard of silent burglar alarms?

I invented the silent fire alarm!

[scott33]

Who the Hell would ever expected this thread to turn into an epic debate?

Debate is good, and up until this thread, I would say I have agreed with at least 90% of every one of your posts I have read. I just find it weird that you aren't seeing the obvious; that the UK systems "works"

However...

Nobody in this discussion has ever suggested that the US has a better way of doing things, or that our driver training is even remotely adequate. Our driver training sucks.

Thanks for acknowledging the sad truth of the matter. Shame the OP doesn't seem to see it that way.

Glad you finally caught some of my dubious humor.

Presumably you have heard of silent burglar alarms?

I invented the silent fire alarm!

The only silence around here is following your feeble attempt to cover up for your obvious lack of insight, by trying to make a joke out of it.

Listen...

[robert gift]

Debate is good, and up until this thread, I would say I have agreed with at least 90% of every one of your posts I have read. I just find it weird that you aren't seeing the obvious; that the UK systems "works"

However...

Thanks for acknowledging the sad truth of the matter. Shame the OP doesn't seem to see it that way.

The only silence around here is following your feeble attempt to cover up for your obvious lack of insight, by trying to make a joke out of it.

Listen...

Borders make no difference. Fake runs would be just as ridiculous here as anywherelse.

Even thinking English citizens agree that FAKE runs are an unnecessary, absurd, rude, imposition which should cease.

None knew of these fake runs - so much for media attention of this nonsense.

What does a photo of my front porch have to do with this?

[Just Plain Ruff]

Please bring a new horse. The original one is beaten beyond recognition.

[mrmeaner]

I have seen a couple driving course programs and have been fairly impressed, even though I'm not a 12-week medic. The driver training programs as described does seem to go well above and beyond most programs in the states. Is this the standard practice in the UK or just for government run operations?

The two biggest issues, (or at least causes of concern), I would see are:

1) Secondary accidents caused by emergent ambulance training. I don't have statistical data, and any is welcome, but the anecdotal information I have is that for every accident an ambulance is in, it causes ten.

2) Liability (legal and ethical) regarding a fatal accident caused by training. I would think it would be difficult to defend the reasoning for emergent travel as a part of training. There was a point made that the training was done without a patient because then a patient is not endangered. While this is true, it does nothing for the other occupants of the ambulance, other drivers, pedestrians, etc. By that reasoning, wouldn't it make more sense to perform the training during the lowest traffic levels of a day? Or is that already done.

Have either of these conditions existed? And if so, were the driver and trainer defended and recused by laws that have been stated? Did/Would the law protect them in a civil suit?

Edited because I spelled "practice" with an s. Dammit Dust!

I hate quoting myself. I feel like George Castanza.

Brentoli asked very similar questions that from what I can tell have gone unanswered. I'm asking to get further information because, as I'm sure you're well aware, lawsuits are pretty common here. As I understand it, what you are doing would not be legal here. I really don't give a shit if you call them fake runs or emergency responses to a patient yet to be determined, or pre-patient emergency vehicle operation training. But just adding these runs to our systems would do not good, and likely, more harm. Especially considering there is no one form of EMS here. I don't think that anyone, aside from maybe Gift, is saying that the US has a better system. There is a sincere want to improve our EMS system here, but we live in two different cultures so there are additional issues.

These are not loaded questions, just attempts to get a better understanding.

[brentoli]

They won't do it meaner.... They don't want to back up anything with facts or figures, just "thats how its always been done."

Why do you think we broke away 3 centuries ago?

[mrmeaner]

Why do you think we broke away 3 centuries ago?

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