In England They Do Fake Emergent Driving In Public!

[nremtp]

I am a Paramedic in England and Scott33 can confirm this.

We complete a 3 week emergency driver course and this involves driving on public roads under the supervision of a qualified emergency driving instructor. When I completed EMT-B training in Texas there was no EVOC training element and EVOC training is not mandatory in most of the USA. In fact it is only now being discussed by the law makers due to liability issues.

We have to reduce liability as far as reasonably possible and that means ensuring that any emergency services driver who speeds or claims exemptions is suitably trained to do so rather than being let loose on the public.

If you have a problem with emergency drivers being trained and driving under supervision prior to being let loose behind the wheel of a 7 tonne killing machine then you need your head checking.

Wouldn't you rather the driver behind the wheel of the ambulance or fire truck was trained and allowed to practice those skills under supervision? This is not a joy ride as you might think, we don't just drive on blue lights for no reason. This is part of a structured training course designed to create a safe and competent driver.

In fact it is now LAW that an emergency driver completes a course of training before exceeding the speed limit and this requires an approved course of training (although "approved" hasn't been defined yet).

Even without it being a legal requirement in statute, there is still a duty of care under the Health and Safety at Work Act and the law places a statutory obligation on the emergency services to ensure that they protect their staff and the public from danger.

To let someone behind the wheel of an emergency vehicle without training is madness, you wouldn't let a pilot loose behind a 747 if they had only ever flown a simulator.

The driver needs to learn how to react to the public and just as importantly how the public will react to them.

Maybe your attitude and lack of training is the reason there are so many emergency vehicle accidents in the USA!

[spenac]

I would prefer no one drove lights and sirens. Is there any actuall proof that more lives are saved because of this dangerous action than lost in acidents caused by it?

[BEorP]

I would prefer no one drove lights and sirens. Is there any actuall proof that more lives are saved because of this dangerous action than lost in acidents caused by it?

From the studies I have read, there is a statistically significant decrease in driving time but this time is most likely not clinically significant. I believe most of these studies were urban based though.

[Dustdevil]

We have to reduce liability as far as reasonably possible and that means ensuring that any emergency services driver who speeds or claims exemptions is suitably trained to do so rather than being let loose on the public.

Wait... this driving you are talking about IS being "let loose on the public". I don't see the difference. I certainly don't see how puts the public at any less risk than if he were driving on a real emergency. And is there some serious shortage of real emergencies in England for them to practise on that you have to stage fake emergencies? What am I missing?

I'm not opposed to the concept of practising as you fight. We do the same thing at MCI and disaster drills, responding lights and siren, just like a real emergency. I just don't buy this BS justification they are using. It doesn't add up.

[scott33]

I'm not opposed to the concept of practising as you fight. We do the same thing at MCI and disaster drills, responding lights and siren, just like a real emergency. I just don't buy this BS justification they are using. It doesn't add up.

As a driver-trainer and recently appointed examiner myself, I have often seen the other side of someone who has performed very well on their driver training, and aced their final exam, only to see them get a flap on when they get their first live call. Hands all over the place trying to find the toggle switches, taking the fact that they are driving to an "emergency" way too literally, excessive speeding, agressive braking, and generally just panicing.

Had they previously been exposed to live runs, under a more controlled condition, with immediate feedback and knowing there is no life at stake, they would be more prepared for genuine emergency runs. In the UK, that is the law, something they need to prove proficiency in prior to passing their road test. It has nothing to do with trying to fake the public.

There are a million-and-one other analogies where live practice is favored over simulation, due to the element of realism it gives the student.

But it seems you will always get those who will oppose any sense of realism in a training environment. Such as weapons drills on live firing ranges, test flights on anything other than a computer simulation, IV access on anything other than a plastic arm, etc etc.

Proven fact; the best way to learn, is by doing

[Dustdevil]

There are a million-and-one other analogies where live practice is favored over simulation, due to the element of realism it gives the student.

Exactly, and that is my point.

What you are describing is not live practice. It's just simulation.

And if your drivers are being taught to fumble with switches while driving, that is FAIL! I can see why the system would suck.

[scott33]

And if your drivers are being taught to fumble with switches while driving, that is FAIL! I can see why the system would suck.

Not taught, but something which is all too common through lack of experience of driving under emergency driving conditions, simulated or otherwise. They can't be blamed, the system does suck.

Their FIRST exposure to using lights, sirens, switches etc while driving is on their first actual call after they have passed their road test.

Knowing where everything is may be second nature when stationary, and the walkthrough of the warning systems are repeated ad nauseum - while parked up. But it is a different kettle of fish when they are on their first few calls.

This sort of introduction to the operation of emergency vehicles is flawed, and yes, a google search of US vs rest of the world ambulance accidents / fatalities may put things into perspective.

[Dustdevil]

Their FIRST exposure to using lights, sirens, switches etc while driving is on their first actual call after they have passed their road test.

Knowing where everything is may be second nature when stationary, and the walkthrough of the warning systems are repeated ad nauseum - while parked up. But it is a different kettle of fish when they are on their first few calls.

You're overcomplicating it. Keep your hands on the steering wheel and off the switches. The partner riding shotgun should be doing all that. Why would it take hundreds of simulated runs to learn that?

[scott33]

The partner riding shotgun should be doing all that.

Anyone from Nassau County PD EMS in the house?

[spenac]

From the studies I have read, there is a statistically significant decrease in driving time but this time is most likely not clinically significant. I believe most of these studies were urban based though.

Driving time saved does not = lives saved.