In England They Do Fake Emergent Driving In Public!

[Michael]

How many accidents have resulted from these dry runs?

Yo, Dusty! That's spozed to be my question! On the other thread!

[pond life]

Hi all,

I can confirm that the police, fire and ambulance all do training blue light runs. It would be unwise to let the newbie out on theroad without first being assessed that s/he is safe. And this must be done by a driving instructor.

Another option would be to get the instructor on the first shift of each newbie. However this has proven impractical as the instrucotr can't be expected to be in different ambulance stations across 3 or4 counties on the same day.

Everything we do or use in the ambulance service in the UK has to be assessed by a trainer first - driving on blue lights is no exception.

My concern would be letting a person loose without safety oversight on theior first few blue light runs - red mist tends to creep in and that's never a good thing.

Mike

Cornwall. England

[brentoli]

How many accidents have happened because of these "dry runs?"

What about secondary accidents, the crew may not have witnessed behind them, or at cross roads?

How is the liability covered when the people inconvienced/hurt by these "dry runs" find out there was no emergency?

[WelshMedic]

How many accidents have happened because of these "dry runs?"

What about secondary accidents, the crew may not have witnessed behind them, or at cross roads?

How is the liability covered when the people inconvienced/hurt by these "dry runs" find out there was no emergency?

How many accidents have been caused by the stressed out newbie with red mist syndrome on the way to a BS call?

Let 's face it, you are never going to win this argument on that basis. It's just done differently in the UK. Not better of worse, just different.

WM

[brentoli]

Excuse me?

No one said I was trying to "win an arguement."

I was asking for facts.

K THX BAI

[robert gift]

These FAKE runs need NOT be done. They should be made illegal to end this ridiculous tradition.

You can train as you drive NORMALLY, anywhere - as you approach ANY intersection, travel ANY street, encounter ANY traffic congestion, you can discern/discuss what is best to do.

Excerpts from our driving course:

When driving emergent, ALWAYS SIGNAL EARLY every turn, lane change, when entering and exiting Interstates (motorways), when pulling out from parallel parking.

Early signaling helps others notice turn signals despite the distraction of das blinkin' lights.

Never use four-way flashers except when parked.

Options, in order of preference:

Coming to RED SIGNALS (I reject the term "negative" intersection)

1) Progress through right-most (UK) vacant lane or turn lane.

2) Go into opposing lanes and pass platoon of stopped traffic.

3) Position behind/between shortest lines of vehicles - influencing them to spread out - some squeeze left, others squeeze right (but some may pull into intersection)

4) Pull behind shortest line and cause vehicles to enter intersection* when cross-traffic has stopped for the EV.

*Firetruck pulls behind man stopped at red signal.

Man pulls forward into intersection to clear out of the way.

Cross-traffic vehicle broadsides man and he dies at the scene.

That fire truck should have gone into opposing lane #1 and passed.

Better that the EV take on the risk and make its own way rather than influence others to move forward.

STRAIGHT-A-WAYS

1) Prefer travel in lane #1

2) travel in turn lanes. Minimize travel on median because of possible debris.

3) pass traffic using opposing lane #1

Try to position EV LEFT in your lane.

This aids vehicles in front seeing the emergency lights in both mirrors and in hearing the siren, and influences them to move right.

Trucks may never see or hear EV unless you position left.

When there is a raised median, some vehicles will move left and stop against the median.

When that happens it oftens starts others moving left and stopping.

Rather than try to get drivers to move right, some will not, it then becomes best to position between lanes #1 and #2.

In some areas, traffic stacks up in lanes #1 and #2 and lane #3 is mosty open.

Without siren we travel in open lane #3, not exceeding the speed limit. (We are then a regular vehicle legally traveling in a lane.)

ONE-WAY STREETS:

Use lane #1 if two lanes

When three or more lanes, lane #2 is often best because some vehicles in lane #1 will move left and stop against the curb.

(Often they are drivers intending to turn left at the next intersection and they do not want to change lanes into lane #2

and be unable to get back into lane #1 from which to turn left.)

EXITING INTERSTATES

We turn off the siren and signal early as we safely change lanes towards the deceleration lane.

Since I am below the speed limit and not required to have the emergency lights operating, I have turned off ALL lights so vehicles ahead will not pull right into the lane.

WE DO NOT STOP AT RED SIGNALS SIGNALS UNLESS NECESSARY

Once stopped, you appear parked and cross-traffic will continue to cross.

By the time drivers hear your siren, it is often too late for them to stop.

(This is the fault of law enforcement parking with ALL lights operating, even though only lights facing rearward should be used.)

So we try to keep moving forward just to show our need to cross.

Most, if not all, of the variables can be encountered making use of everyday trips such as returning from calls.

No need to make special trips, no taking right of way from others, no disrupting traffic, no annoying everyone, no endangering others with FAKE emergent runs.

What most needs to be practiced is learning vehicle clearances, maneuvering and backing on courses with cones and cone obstacles.

This can be conducted in parking lots where no one is exposed to any danger and inconvenience.

[crotchitymedic1986]

Dust you know i love you, but i have to disagree:

wasnt it better when we were able to intubate live surgery patients back in the day, in the presence of an anesthesiologists ?

wasnt it better when you had to start your first IVs on your classmates ?

practicing emergency driving when there is no stress, and no patient's life hanging in the balance is better than driving lights and sirens for the first time on a real call. I imagine some sort of preceptor is used that can totally fixate on driving skills, not a partner who is looking up the call in his mapbook or texting his baby's momma.

[spenac]

wasnt it better when we were able to intubate live surgery patients back in the day, in the presence of an anesthesiologists ?

wasnt it better when you had to start your first IVs on your classmates ?

Thats still how its done.

[theotherphil]

Okay, if this is such a valid educational theory, let's just go ahead and carry it over to the rest of our duties.

Let's just start intubating people without medical indications, just so the first time we do it on an actual emergency patient, we have plenty of "real" experience behind us.

Wait, why waste time with intubation on those people? Go big or go home! Cricothyrotomies for everyone!

I'm sure you'd like to know that we practice intubation on real patients over here as well! I had 57 tubes in 2 weeks on real patients from 18months old upwards...all done under the supervision of a consultant anaesthetist before being let loose on my own. The LMA's on the list were dropped for ET tubes to allow me to learn. Real practice, for real situations. It helped immensely and gives the student the confidence required to be real slick when it come to doing it for real. That's in addition to all the hours on a dummy that doesn't vomit/ stink/ move like a real patient.

Just face it, we do things differently over here. It's not worth worrying about though.

[Dustdevil]

It would be unwise to let the newbie out on theroad without first being assessed that s/he is safe. And this must be done by a driving instructor.

But you ARE letting them out on the road without first being assessed that they are safe. How are you guys not getting that? The whole justification that is being given here is false. It does not prevent what you say you are preventing.

I'm sure you'd like to know that we practice intubation on real patients over here as well!

The key term there is "real patients". They really are patients! They really do need to be intubated. That is not even close to being a valid analogy to running through town on a FAKE run, that is not a real emergency to a real patient.

I just don't get where you guys aren't seeing the folly here. I know for a fact that I am not talking to a bunch of whackers who are just looking for excuses to play with the siren. So the only explanation that I can fathom here is that you are simply unable to imagine ever doing anything differently than how it's always been done. That is no justification for anything. It's just an excuse. Seriously, if your leaders honestly cannot think of a better way to do this, that does not put the public at risk, then your leaders suck.