Maybe We're Wrong

[Dustdevil]

What career oriented individuals such as myself

Exactly. People whose only concern is their individual career, with no regard whatsoever for the profession as a whole. Selfish narcissists.

Very well put.

[Diazepam618]

Exactly. People whose only concern is their individual career, with no regard whatsoever for the profession as a whole. Selfish narcissists.

Very well put.

What are you talking about?, I guess all of the southern Cali FD's are selfish. I tell you that my family thank me for my dedication to my career, but I got to say this is a stepping stone job at least in the part of the country I live in.

[spenac]

What are you talking about?, I guess all of the southern Cali FD's are selfish. I tell you that my family thank me for my dedication to my career, but I got to say this is a stepping stone job at least in the part of the country I live in.

Please get to stepping then as we need people that want to stay and make Paramedicine a real profession.

And yes calis FD ambulance drivers suck. Please use the search feature and you will find discussions with plenty of facts backing that statement up.

[brentoli]

Please get to stepping then as we need people that want to stay and make Paramedicine a real profession.

And yes calis FD ambulance drivers suck. Please use the search feature and you will find discussions with plenty of facts backing that statement up.

[Diazepam618]

Please get to stepping then as we need people that want to stay and make Paramedicine a real profession.

And yes calis FD ambulance drivers suck. Please use the search feature and you will find discussions with plenty of facts backing that statement up.

Not sure why Cali FD's suck, medics are medics everywhere at least in the US anyways. I am just stating the facts as to where I live this is a stepping stone job, not sure that it is going to change.

[Dustdevil]

What are you talking about?, I guess all of the southern Cali FD's are selfish.

Well, let's see... they do it not because they want to do it, but because it puts money into their budget and creates jobs. You do it not because you want to do it, but because it gets you a fire job. Yeah, I'd have to say that is selfish. Perhaps you have a different definition that I do?

I tell you that my family thank me for my dedication to my career...

Like you, they don't know any better. But they thank you for your dedication as a fire medic, not as a medical professional. And if they knew the paltry level of educational commitment you made to that career, compared to those who dedicate fully to it, they would probably feel otherwise.

but I got to say this is a stepping stone job at least in the part of the country I live in.

And that is precisely our point. The fire service is the reason for that. Nothing personal against you. You can't change the system. It's just the way things are in So Cal. But it is holding the rest of the profession back in the 1970s.

Not sure why Cali FD's suck, medics are medics everywhere at least in the US anyways.

If you had actually been anywhere else in your short career, you would know why they suck. For that matter, if you had just spent some objective reading time on this forum you would know too. As for all medics being the same, that too is a reflection of your very limited exposure. The difference between a 10 week LA medic and a 2 year Texas medic is more obvious than the difference between night and day.

[Diazepam618]

Thank you for being sincere I really do appreciate it, not trying to start a war, but I did work in Tulsa for a while, and there wasn't much difference between Oklahoma and Cali except in $$$, I mean we still had protocols to follow written and directed by an MD. I also enjoy the medic aspect of my job, but there is only so much you can do out of hospital, especialy with short transport times, and as far as the FD's keeping EMS back I say it's the volly's who give there service away for free are doing just that, and the privates for being so cheap with all equipment and personel.

[Dustdevil]

Thank you for being sincere I really do appreciate it, not trying to start a war...

And thank you for accepting the information in the spirit in which it was honestly intended, particularly that it is not personal.

...but I did work in Tulsa for a while, and there wasn't much difference between Oklahoma and Cali except in $$$, I mean we still had protocols to follow written and directed by an MD.

The difference is that, in the better educated and dedicated professional systems, it's not about protocols. It is about a more independent medical practitioner working in the field, making decisions based upon an advanced understanding of medicine and thorough medical assessments, instead of simply cooking by the book, which is typical of Southern California. It's been decades since I had to memorise rigid protocols and practise by them as if painting by the numbers. I have been free to perform an advanced assessment, arrive at a provisional diagnosis, and provide any treatment I deem medically indicated, within currently accepted standards. There is no rigid flow chart that I have to follow out of a protocol book. And ideally, that is what is best for the patient. Practitioners who understand what is wrong with their patients on a pathophysiological level, and understand the physiological basis of the therapeutics they employ to treat those conditions. Decisions made intelligently and objectively, not read out of a book that knows nothing about the patient, and is infrequently updated. That's what I want for myself when I am acutely ill or injured. And that is what is ultimately best for our patients. And what is best for our patients is what is best for our profession.

I also enjoy the medic aspect of my job, but there is only so much you can do out of hospital, especialy with short transport times,

True. However, the difference is not so much what you can do, but the ability to more intelligently determine when to do it. Not to mention the LA problem of lazy firemedics who inappropriately dump a great many truly sick patients on BLS private crews because they lack the ability to competently assess them, or lack the ability to treat them. In a better educated system -- even urban -- both problems are fixed.

and as far as the FD's keeping EMS back I say it's the volly's who give there service away for free are doing just that, and the privates for being so cheap with all equipment and personel.

You're absolutely right about vollies holding the profession back in a serious way. However, the argument that they are more detrimental to the profession than the fire service is debatable. First of all, most vollies are firemen, not dedicated EMS vollies. Consequently, the fire service contributes to the problem doubly. And in the career fire sector, they hold the profession back even more by not only lobbying to hold educational entry levels as low as possible, but by forcing people into the job that never wanted to do the job in the first place. Then, after a few years, they take those people out of the field altogether, further contributing to the turnover and unstable workforce.

Seriously, there can be very little positive said about the fire services contributions to EMS in the last three decades. In fact, the negatives would outnumber those positives by a ratio of at least ten to one. I'm glad it works out as a stable career for you. I would never begrudge a man that. But it simply is not good for the profession as a whole, or the patients we serve, unless you fall back on the old "well, it's better than nothing" argument.

[Ridryder 911]

Thank you for being sincere I really do appreciate it, not trying to start a war, but I did work in Tulsa for a while, and there wasn't much difference between Oklahoma and Cali except in $$$, I mean we still had protocols to follow written and directed by an MD. I also enjoy the medic aspect of my job, but there is only so much you can do out of hospital, especialy with short transport times, and as far as the FD's keeping EMS back I say it's the volly's who give there service away for free are doing just that, and the privates for being so cheap with all equipment and personel.

Apparently you did not explorer any other community but the land of EMSA. Unfortunately, many feel that all EMS is the same. Yet, many did not ever look outside the local community or city. My system is definitely not alike EMSA nor is many others that provide care in Oklahoma (wanted to clarrify this) Although EMSA does have some excellent critical thinking medics, they do try emphasize cook book and protocol driven medics.

Maybe you should place an ear to Tulsa's dilemma now and see what the opinion is of the fire service. Again, please don't make blanket statements. Not all Paramedics are created equal in fact very few are above the "trade" profession and I am NOT a public servant, rather I am a medical professional. Opinions of we are safety is just one of our problems in EMS.

R/r 911

[spenac]

. Again, please don't make blanket statements. Not all Paramedics are created equal in fact very few are above the "trade" profession and I am NOT a public servant, rather I am a medical professional. Opinions of we are safety is just one of our problems in EMS.

R/r 911

Can I get an AMEN? AMEN.

We are Pre Hospital Medical Professionals.