Deadly Ambulance Crash Tucson Az, A Reason No Passengers Allowed

[Mateo_1387]

I'm glad my last rolling code saves were not aware that "no operation worth anything doesn't do them" or however the last hero stated it. I'll be sure and tell the one gent that the next time he walks into the station to visit with us.. as he often does.

AHA recommends codes be worked on scene because they do have a better chance of ROSC than a code being worked in an ambulance. Next time that fellow comes in to 'hang out' with you, let him know just how lucky he was, as chances were very much against him being worked in the back of an ambulance.

You that say decide case by case are opening yourselves and your company to discrimination law suits. You either have to live be set standard one way or the other. Case by case leaves to much open to scrutiny. This is why you should be consitent in patent care, documentation, etc. If taken to court you can bet the lawyers will be looking for any inconsistency so they can hang you.

Mateo the harm and danger far out weighs the mental comfort. That 90 miles leads to a lot more being done and you do not want to have the driver or the medic with the patient having to fight with the family member. I do see your point but disagree.

Again Tats are not comparing apples to apples, more like apples to watermelons.

You already admit to allowing family to ride in certain situations. So why do you discriminate?

I have to agree that justification needs to be met as to why you may deny someone to ride, such as a rider being hysterical.

I get the impression your risk management dept. is not very savvy in your area. If so, that is a shame. Either way, you should be able to treat a patient's physical harms as well as support their emotional needs.

We can drop the tatts deal. You do not get it anyways. I am not comparing tatts to riders, but rather the regulation of stress inducers.

[spenac]

AHA recommends codes be worked on scene because they do have a better chance of ROSC than a code being worked in an ambulance. Next time that fellow comes in to 'hang out' with you, let him know just how lucky he was, as chances were very much against him being worked in the back of an ambulance.

You already admit to allowing family to ride in certain situations. So why do you discriminate?

I have to agree that justification needs to be met as to why you may deny someone to ride, such as a rider being hysterical.

I get the impression your risk management dept. is not very savvy in your area. If so, that is a shame. Either way, you should be able to treat a patient's physical harms as well as support their emotional needs.

We can drop the tatts deal. You do not get it anyways. I am not comparing tatts to riders, but rather the regulation of stress inducers.

I like debating you Mateo. Your like me we fight just to fight.

There is a difference the ones that ride are there because we need someone with legal authority to make decisions. Honestly risk management had little to say in the matter. We also had the slight problem of illegals paying people to act sick and then claim the passenger was family. Turned out per border patrol we transported alot of non patient illegals that they caught. We actually have found out some of the kids parents were not their parents. Plus we had the problem of the passenger getting busted with lots of drugs taped to their bodys. So our border issues also come into play.

I do see your point about tatas but its more fun to fight with you.

[Mateo_1387]

I like debating you Mateo. Your like me we fight just to fight.

There is a difference the ones that ride are there because we need someone with legal authority to make decisions. Honestly risk management had little to say in the matter. We also had the slight problem of illegals paying people to act sick and then claim the passenger was family. Turned out per border patrol we transported alot of non patient illegals that they caught. We actually have found out some of the kids parents were not their parents. Plus we had the problem of the passenger getting busted with lots of drugs taped to their bodys. So our border issues also come into play.

I do see your point about tatas but its more fun to fight with you.

LOL. That brought a smile to my face.

And to fix your problem, start transporting to Mexico !

[cynical_as_hell]

Even though we know that you put on this display, to look like an idiot here. If you truly thought that way. I would not only fire you, but push to have your cert revoked.

For you to come on a public forum and spot off like an ass, does nothing for EMS. If you truly feel that way, McDonald's is always hiring!

Perhaps you are just spouting off on things you know nothing about. Certs aren't issued based on personality. To get that revokesd, you would have to actually do something wrong. Perhaps its the people in EMS that kiss the ass of every patient and allow them to abuse the 911 system that gets everyone else burnt out. If EMS still stood for what it was meant to be in the beginning and we didnt put up with the frequent flyer shit, EMS would have a better name for itself. As far as working at McDonalds, Sorry, that doesnt fit my schedule. I enjoy only working 10 days a month.

Ask yourself, how many people that get into EMS actually stay in it once they are burnt out for any other reason than the schedule it has???

[Mateo_1387]

Perhaps you are just spouting off on things you know nothing about. Certs aren't issued based on personality. To get that revokesd, you would have to actually do something wrong. Perhaps its the people in EMS that kiss the ass of every patient and allow them to abuse the 911 system that gets everyone else burnt out. If EMS still stood for what it was meant to be in the beginning and we didnt put up with the frequent flyer shit, EMS would have a better name for itself. As far as working at McDonalds, Sorry, that doesnt fit my schedule. I enjoy only working 10 days a month.

Ask yourself, how many people that get into EMS actually stay in it once they are burnt out for any other reason than the schedule it has???

Attitude is everything. It is sad to see EMS providers that cannot show simple respect to another person. Patients calling for help should not have to hear things such as "why is THIS pain different now at 3am than it was 7pm LAST night?" Too many people are short winded with patients, tell them how it is 'gonna be', and usually plain dicks to patients. Why do you think this attitude shows? I say due to burn out. I have noticed in my short time that patients are much easier to work with when they are shown a bit of respect.

The other reason I think certain EMS providers have an attitude about their patients is because they do not possess enough medical education. So many times I run to nursing homes, frequent fliers, and the like to find sick patients where my partner is saying "they should have sent a convalescent ambulance to transport." I usually end up having to take the call because the patient is in pain and deserve pain meds, they are dehydrated and need fluid, their breathing is not normal and I suspect other medical emergencies. It is the difference between appreciating what the patients’ problem is rather than thinking about going back to bed.

As far as ass kissing patients, you need to take a step back. If you do not like your company's 'you call we haul' method, then go find a better EMS agency to work for.

[reaper]

Perhaps you are just spouting off on things you know nothing about. Certs aren't issued based on personality. To get that revokesd, you would have to actually do something wrong. You go on believing that! Piss off your MD and see how fast they can get the state to pull your cert!

Perhaps its the people in EMS that kiss the ass of every patient and allow them to abuse the 911 system that gets everyone else burnt out. If EMS still stood for what it was meant to be in the beginning and we didnt put up with the frequent flyer shit, EMS would have a better name for itself. As far as working at McDonalds, Sorry, that doesnt fit my schedule. I enjoy only working 10 days a month.

Ask yourself, how many people that get into EMS actually stay in it once they are burnt out for any other reason than the schedule it has???

I could care less. If they are burnt out, then they need to leave EMS. You sound like you are on you're way there?

As stated, If you don't like your services policies, then leave or fight to change it. I can see you as the type that takes out their frustrations on the pt?

[Jeepluv77]

When my oldest son was very young he had several bouts of status epilepticus. The crews that transported him were great about me riding with him. Five times I rode (belted) on the jump seat in the back. Once I rode in the front of the cab. Not one time did they even try to talk me out of it, which they have the right to flat out refuse. What was the reason for this? Well, I can't say for sure, but I'll bet it's because even though I was visibly worried, I hid that from my son and was nothing but upbeat in his presence. Now, when I left the room to talk to the medics while he was packaged I did cry. But as soon as I walked back into that room, I had already pulled it back together. I wanted to be able to comfort him when/if he came out of it and freaking out myself wasn't going to further that goal. To this day, I really believe that's the reason they let me go. Same thing with my dad when he had what we later found out was bi-lateral subdural hemotomas. I had no questions from the crew on whether or not I'd be riding. Also, since the pts in all cases were unconsious, they explained everything in great detail which helped a lot to maintain my cool.

[Star09]

I'm glad to see a debate on this as it's something I have been thinking about lately.

Our service has no policy on patient family/friends riding other than acknowledging that it is our choice to let them ride. I generally have no issue with parents accompanying children. However, in the cases of adult patients I think some things need to be taken into consideration.

1. Is having this person on car going to affect my patient care?

2. Does this person seem physically healthy enough?

3. What is the nature of patient transport? (i.e Emerg.-hot, Emerg.-cold, Transfer - direct admit, Transfer-wait and return)

Then I think we need to ask ourselves:

4. Am I making this decision because I am truly concerned about safety and patient care or am I feeling lazy or insensitive today?

1. I think the first one is fairly self-explanatory although it's probably the hardest one to evaluate. You just don't always know how someone is going to react. Having your loved one in an ambulance is a stressful experience. Personally I feel that family members deserve to have their questions answered, but honestly I'm not experienced enough to answer questions and manage a critical patient at the same time.

2. My partner recently agreed to let the elderly wife of an equally elderly patient come with us on a transfer between two hospitals. This was before we realized that the wife is blind and can't walk without assistance. She was also unable to get in and out of the ambulance without both of us to help her. To me this detracted from patient care and was really like having a second patient with us. It required making multiple trips with a wheelchair to accommodate the wife as well as finding and ordering lunch for her. She was a very sweet lady and very grateful for our patience but we would have returned with her husband in three hours tops. She probably should have hung back. On another occasion we had a family member who had health problems of her own and began complaining of SOB and how she was going to go hypoglycemic if we didn't stop for her to get food. Another person who probably shouldn't have come.

3. If I am driving hot I won't be comfortable having any extra passengers - especially not in the cab with me. That's my personal comfort level and I believe that is my choice to make at that time as I am responsible for the safe arrival of my patient and and my partner. However, flexibility is definitely an option in other cases.

4. Honestly, we likely all have days when we're not at our most sensitive or when we would prefer not to have to deal with an especially annoying family member. But if we're still being professionals we should try our best not to let that rule our decisions.

Sometimes it seems to me like commonsense to avoid having more people than necessary in the unit. But then I also don't want to be insensitive to the patient and their family either. It's a bit of a balancing act.

[Richard B the EMT]

1) If a pediatric patient can be kept calm by bringing the mom or dad along, they get seat belted in on the rearmost seat of the crew bench, out of the way, kind of, but the child can see them from the stretcher.

2) When working a call where a female got raped, I'll ask them if they'd like to have another female come along, if available, and based on "Load and Go/Stay and Play" conditions with the patient, try and comply. A patient's girlfriend, mom, grandmother, or a lady LEO can come along, but they get seat belted in.

3) The patient is not from the area, nor is the patient's friend/family member, who wants to go with them. They arrived on public transportation, not by car. Are you going to leave them behind? Again they get seat belted in. It is also a case by case decision in that scenario.

4) If the patient is stable, and friend/family member wants to follow in a POV, I give travel instructions, including the fact that the patient appears stable, and I won't be traveling L&S, and will be stopping for all traffic signals. I advise them to do likewise.

5) If the patient is not stable, and friends/family members want to follow in their POV, I give travel instructions, and start them off to the hospital, if possible, before we even load the patient, stating, "we'll meet you there, now drive safely."

[spenac]

4) If the patient is stable, and friend/family member wants to follow in a POV, I give travel instructions, including the fact that the patient appears stable, and I won't be traveling L&S, and will be stopping for all traffic signals. I advise them to do likewise.

5) If the patient is not stable, and friends/family members want to follow in their POV, I give travel instructions, and start them off to the hospital, if possible, before we even load the patient, stating, "we'll meet you there, now drive safely."

We have to tell the family to stop at the border patrol checkpoints as we don't stop. Border patrol does not take lightly to people speeding by w/o stopping.